state of the game

I feel like right now unless you play duel/cw only the state of the game is getting kind of annoying. I suppose besides duel/cw there is only really garden tdm to play with the occasional rotation tdm. But all these explosives and molotovs etc are getting too much imo. I dont really understand the concept of this new tnt item, you throw it in a corner and you hope that after 4 seconds whoever didn't see you throw this item is going to that place and take 100 damage or w/e it is. The tnt can also reach underground when it's placed above ground like wtf? These garden tdm rooms are getting so random now with these molotovs, tnts and ppl suiciding with sticky nades that you just have to get lucky that you're not dying to these things or take random 100 damage.

I dont want to sound like I'm whining, Idk maybe I am but especially this new item just makes no sense to me. I like this game because it takes skill and effort to play, not because I wanna die to some random shit that you can not have seen coming.

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Mattie

I feel like right now unless you play duel/cw only the state of the game is getting kind of annoying. I suppose besides duel/cw there is only really garden tdm to play with the occasional rotation tdm. But all these explosives and molotovs etc are getting too much imo. I dont really understand the concept of this new tnt item, you throw it in a corner and you hope that after 4 seconds whoever didn't see you throw this item is going to that place and take 100 damage or w/e it is. The tnt can also reach underground when it's placed above ground like wtf? These garden tdm rooms are getting so random now with these molotovs, tnts and ppl suiciding with sticky nades that you just have to get lucky that you're not dying to these things or take random 100 damage.

I dont want to sound like I'm whining, Idk maybe I am but especially this new item just makes no sense to me. I like this game because it takes skill and effort to play, not because I wanna die to some random shit that you can not have seen coming.

Thoughts?

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That's why there's [EX]. If people don't use [EX] that means they probably enjoy having explosives.

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Originally Posted by McSic

That's why there's [EX]. If people don't use [EX] that means they probably enjoy having explosives.

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That's these items are catered towards players that aren't good lol

Right now there's a 30/32 player garden TDM going on (without [EX]), and it's not because anyone forces them to play that, we offer a bunch of options and game modes, people just naturally seem to enjoy that the most nowadays.

If that is what people enjoy the most then so be it imo. It wouldn't be fair to completely take that away from them, since the options are there.

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Originally Posted by Mattie

I feel like right now unless you play duel/cw only the state of the game is getting kind of annoying. I suppose besides duel/cw there is only really garden tdm to play with the occasional rotation tdm. But all these explosives and molotovs etc are getting too much imo. I dont really understand the concept of this new tnt item, you throw it in a corner and you hope that after 4 seconds whoever didn't see you throw this item is going to that place and take 100 damage or w/e it is. The tnt can also reach underground when it's placed above ground like wtf? These garden tdm rooms are getting so random now with these molotovs, tnts and ppl suiciding with sticky nades that you just have to get lucky that you're not dying to these things or take random 100 damage.

I dont want to sound like I'm whining, Idk maybe I am but especially this new item just makes no sense to me. I like this game because it takes skill and effort to play, not because I wanna die to some random shit that you can not have seen coming.

Thoughts?

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To be quite honest, I find all of these explosives, molotovs, grenades and launchers fun and attractive to a certain extent. Before, when this was all about throwing 1-2 Hit Kill grenades and players spamming rockets, it was generally tolerable - now it feels way too much and I can relate to your statements above.

Another thing that pisses me off lately is the fact that everybody nowadays, including myself tbh, is dependant on simply both ONE type of game-mode AND ONE type of map where you can use all of these new items. All of us forget there's other game-modes and other maps where we can try new gameplays because Garden TDMs are getting redundant, boring and mostly annoying. It's time for players who really care for the longevity of this game, and this private-server specifically, to start creating Capture the Flag rooms, for example, and be open for new games.

Currently, when players rage in a Garden TDM and later leave, they'll most likely hop on a Training room or try a Duel room for 20~30 minutes and then log out. Idk, it's just time to change the daily norm of game-style at FGunZ, because there's many other types of games that can be played enjoyably.

The hitbox of the TNT is too big, my hp/ap goes to 50% or below without being anywhere close to it. It deals damage to me downstairs of garden while the tnt is placed upstairs. Also I cant seem to figure out which TNT is on my side and what TNT is from the enemy team. I have also seen TNTs just on the floor for a very long time.
Molotov size is still too big as well.

I am a 1 hit kill user myself and rooms with EX tags are boring for me, but the TNTs killing me when i stand behind the car in garden while the TNT is placed close to the stairs is bullshit.

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Originally Posted by McSic

Right now there's a 30/32 player garden TDM going on (without [EX]), and it's not because anyone forces them to play that, we offer a bunch of options and game modes, people just naturally seem to enjoy that the most nowadays.

If that is what people enjoy the most then so be it imo. It wouldn't be fair to completely take that away from them, since the options are there.

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Of course most players are gonna like that and I dont think you should remove everything. But if you add broken items most people are gonna use that because it's easy to get kills with since it takes no skill. If you're gonna add a launcher that does 300 damage you can use that same argument. Of course this is an extreme example but that doesn't mean that it makes the reasoning right.

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by TomasEdison

To be quite honest, I find all of these explosives, molotovs, grenades and launchers fun and attractive to a certain extent. Before, when this was all about throwing 1-2 Hit Kill grenades and players spamming rockets, it was generally tolerable - now it feels way too much and I can relate to your statements above.

Another thing that pisses me off lately is the fact that everybody nowadays, including myself tbh, is dependant on simply both ONE type of game-mode AND ONE type of map where you can use all of these new items. All of us forget there's other game-modes and other maps where we can try new gameplays because Garden TDMs are getting redundant, boring and mostly annoying. It's time for players who really care for the longevity of this game, and this private-server specifically, to start creating Capture the Flag rooms, for example, and be open for new games.

Currently, when players rage in a Garden TDM and later leave, they'll most likely hop on a Training room or try a Duel room for 20~30 minutes and then log out. Idk, it's just time to change the daily norm of game-style at FGunZ, because there's many other types of games that can be played enjoyably.

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I agree but I also think the playerbase is too low to play something else besides garden tdm if that makes sense. If I were to create a ctf room right now it would get 8 players max probably and die after 20 minutes, but all these explosives are just too much, especially because garden is such a small map and it's basically the only map played

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Originally Posted by Shang

The hitbox of the TNT is too big, my hp/ap goes to 50% or below without being anywhere close to it. It deals damage to me downstairs of garden while the tnt is placed upstairs. Also I cant seem to figure out which TNT is on my side and what TNT is from the enemy team. I have also seen TNTs just on the floor for a very long time.
Molotov size is still too big as well.

I am a 1 hit kill user myself and rooms with EX tags are boring for me, but the TNTs killing me when i stand behind the car in garden while the TNT is placed close to the stairs is bullshit.

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Sounds like we need to reduce the TNT range a bit and perhaps add blue TNT for team mates. Will have to see why TNT sometimes doesn't explode / disappear.

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Originally Posted by McSic

Sounds like we need to reduce the TNT range a bit and perhaps add blue TNT for team mates. Will have to see why TNT sometimes doesn't explode / disappear.

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seems to happen after the one who placed them dies before they explode

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Before, when this was all about throwing 1-2 Hit Kill grenades and players spamming rockets, it was generally tolerable - now it feels way too much and I can relate to your statements above.

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This. It's just too much, and I don't like that [EX] removes all of the items, I just think there was enough of them as it was lol. You used to have to worry about just nades and rockets. Now it's molotovs, nades, TNT, flamethrower, sticky grenades, rockets, stun nades, mines and flashbangs.

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Originally Posted by Linzor

This. It's just too much, and I don't like that [EX] removes all of the items, I just think there was enough of them as it was lol. You used to have to worry about just nades and rockets and stun nades, mines and flashbangs. Now it's molotovs, nades, TNT, flamethrower, sticky grenades, rockets, stun nades, mines and flashbangs.

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fixed it for you

I agree that it is indeed a bit too much. The chances of a random death keep increasing with every added item it seems.

Worry less, TNT is going to be less of a problem when we reduce the range in the upcoming hotfix. If other stuff is considered OP it gets balanced as well if needed. As someone else pointed out, most explosive items only work well in very specific scenarios, a crowded garden with 20-30 players inside being that exact scenario.

The problem for me is not that it's considered OP, it's just too much variety of explosives and like donkiller said it increases random deaths by the lots, it has made the garden rooms (which is the biggest room) way less fun with all the camping and throwing of explosions and it's just too much crap when you have to focus on all of that stuff at every corner (and even more with TNT since people only hide them at corners). It has completely changed the game imo. That's why I would prefer like a "normal" tag that just goes back to nades and rockets lol. I think it's a shame that [EX] removes all of the items when some just aren't very fond of all these new stuff that has changed the gameplay so much.

Or no tag, but you could have room options like letting one choose what explosive stuff is allowed and what isn't since there's so much variety.

2 lazy 2 make a room? too bad

I have been making tdm rotation without EX because i like using molotovs. Sometimes ends up ppl trying to kick me from my own room. Takes 10-15 minutes untill room is full.
Maybe try that instead of whining...

I have tried using molly's in cw too, but after 1 or 2 rounds ppl cry and hate on me so much. That i think they should automatically just delete them from cw tbh.

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Originally Posted by TomasEdison

To be quite honest, I find all of these explosives, molotovs, grenades and launchers fun and attractive to a certain extent. Before, when this was all about throwing 1-2 Hit Kill grenades and players spamming rockets, it was generally tolerable - now it feels way too much and I can relate to your statements above.

Another thing that pisses me off lately is the fact that everybody nowadays, including myself tbh, is dependant on simply both ONE type of game-mode AND ONE type of map where you can use all of these new items. All of us forget there's other game-modes and other maps where we can try new gameplays because Garden TDMs are getting redundant, boring and mostly annoying. It's time for players who really care for the longevity of this game, and this private-server specifically, to start creating Capture the Flag rooms, for example, and be open for new games.

Currently, when players rage in a Garden TDM and later leave, they'll most likely hop on a Training room or try a Duel room for 20~30 minutes and then log out. Idk, it's just time to change the daily norm of game-style at FGunZ, because there's many other types of games that can be played enjoyably.

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I like the addition of the new items that they've been adding this past year. It adds a freshness to GunZ. Sure it might seem that there's an excessive amount of explosives, but when the majority of players just run shotguns/meds it's good to have that big of a variety. To encourage those players to experiment outside of that comfort zone.

Not everyone is running around with explosives. But there has been an increase in explosive users since the addition of them all which I think is a plus. It's no different than you guys hiding behind corners potshotting with shotguns.

GunZ is not the only older game where everyone tends to play the same mode/maps day in and day out. Plenty of older games that have their player base dwindled down over the years on private servers are no different. Same maps, same guns, same modes.

I've tried hosting other maps, modes, options, but everyone rage quits because it's outside of their comfort zone. GunZ players are lazy.

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Originally Posted by McSic

That's why there's [EX]. If people don't use [EX] that means they probably enjoy having explosives.

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The tag did not change, but the behavior with and without the tag has changed, since you can no longer play with just the old set of toys. Also, that may or may not be the only game room of that map or room-type.

Then, in this very thread you said that the way a lobby is setup "[is] not because anyone forces them to play that", and yet there is an implicit forcing of these new quite frankly untested and arguable overpowered technology into even competitive lobbies. If the technology is not overpowered then why is it so easy to use, and why to people use it on competitive lobbies? The default setting here (no tags) is important because it would also apply to CW. So maybe you can clarify, are we currently being forced to play Competitive with these new technologies or not?


The real mystery is why completely broken new mechanics have made their way front and center in the competitive modes when they haven't seen a fair share of use by the players. As the other poster has pointed out, there is more chances than ever to die to explosive aoe damage that goes through walls. So while you can claim this increases variety, and I can't speak for others, I personally don't play FGunZ to see myself die to aoe damage -- especially aoe damage through a wall.

Maybe we can run a poll? It seems like one of those easy things that we could have done a while ago before adding the content to CW. Maybe there are only a small number of us who feel this way but a cheap solution to improve QoL could be achieved. Even if none of the way the game works changes, just seeing community approval/disapproval could increase involvement in this testing process for new equipment.

Others in this thread have already alluded to the fact that perhaps [EX] should be split into 2 new tags such as [BOOM] and [FIRE] and instead of tags being used to BAN things, they are used to INCLUDE them. If you don't include a tag it cannot be used. Then include [BOOM] by default to restore the original game mode and only lobbies which explicitly sign up for OP guns can use them. If you want, setup a second CW server which includes [FIRE] and through both direct feedback and raw data you can tell us what people really like without having to take a single persons word on it.


*To be clear, default would hit both the default room title and be used for Competitive and include [BOOM] like in the past.

If the [FIRE] tag is tested, then maybe these kind of people would actually know if they like it or not and tell us:
-Someone visit from other server
-Returning player from older times
-Returning FgunZ competitive player
-A current competitive player

Additionally; the main game room makers will still continue to make their [BOOM][FIRE] rooms and can even petition to have these new items, once tested, integrated to the competitive pool. If that's what the people want.



So, to summarize if we go through with the 2 new inclusive tags, you would be able to:

1) play without any of these toys at all (by leaving both tags off)
2) with the flavor you like (by including a single tag)
3) or with everything by including both.

At that point, I think it would be safe to say nobody would be getting forced to play a certain way. Thoughts?

I would like to point out that if the new tag [FIRE] doesn't get traction in my suggested presentation perhaps a rotation (much like Quest of the Day) could be established which gives the [$LATEST ("FIRE" in this example)] tag onto rooms of a certain game-modes that day. I.e. It is now Wednesday, the dice landed on Deathmatch, now for the day all Deathmatch rooms which opted to include [FIRE] get a small boost (+10% exp? I leave this value completely to you). This will ensure that some users (albeit maybe begrudgingly will be iterating on the new toys).

PS; I don't think my idea is perfect but it seems better, although I am sure someone will correct me.

Furl

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Originally Posted by furl

The tag did not change, but the behavior with and without the tag has changed, since you can no longer play with just the old set of toys. Also, that may or may not be the only game room of that map or room-type.

Then, in this very thread you said that the way a lobby is setup "[is] not because anyone forces them to play that", and yet there is an implicit forcing of these new quite frankly untested and arguable overpowered technology into even competitive lobbies. If the technology is not overpowered then why is it so easy to use, and why to people use it on competitive lobbies? The default setting here (no tags) is important because it would also apply to CW. So maybe you can clarify, are we currently being forced to play Competitive with these new technologies or not?


The real mystery is why completely broken new mechanics have made their way front and center in the competitive modes when they haven't seen a fair share of use by the players. As the other poster has pointed out, there is more chances than ever to die to explosive aoe damage that goes through walls. So while you can claim this increases variety, and I can't speak for others, I personally don't play FGunZ to see myself die to aoe damage -- especially aoe damage through a wall.

Maybe we can run a poll? It seems like one of those easy things that we could have done a while ago before adding the content to CW. Maybe there are only a small number of us who feel this way but a cheap solution to improve QoL could be achieved. Even if none of the way the game works changes, just seeing community approval/disapproval could increase involvement in this testing process for new equipment.

Others in this thread have already alluded to the fact that perhaps [EX] should be split into 2 new tags such as [BOOM] and [FIRE] and instead of tags being used to BAN things, they are used to INCLUDE them. If you don't include a tag it cannot be used. Then include [BOOM] by default to restore the original game mode and only lobbies which explicitly sign up for OP guns can use them. If you want, setup a second CW server which includes [FIRE] and through both direct feedback and raw data you can tell us what people really like without having to take a single persons word on it.


*To be clear, default would hit both the default room title and be used for Competitive and include [BOOM] like in the past.

If the [FIRE] tag is tested, then maybe these kind of people would actually know if they like it or not and tell us:
-Someone visit from other server
-Returning player from older times
-Returning FgunZ competitive player
-A current competitive player

Additionally; the main game room makers will still continue to make their [BOOM][FIRE] rooms and can even petition to have these new items, once tested, integrated to the competitive pool. If that's what the people want.



So, to summarize if we go through with the 2 new inclusive tags, you would be able to:

1) play without any of these toys at all (by leaving both tags off)
2) with the flavor you like (by including a single tag)
3) or with everything by including both.

At that point, I think it would be safe to say nobody would be getting forced to play a certain way. Thoughts?

I would like to point out that if the new tag [FIRE] doesn't get traction in my suggested presentation perhaps a rotation (much like Quest of the Day) could be established which gives the [$LATEST ("FIRE" in this example)] tag onto rooms of a certain game-modes that day. I.e. It is now Wednesday, the dice landed on Deathmatch, now for the day all Deathmatch rooms which opted to include [FIRE] get a small boost (+10% exp? I leave this value completely to you). This will ensure that some users (albeit maybe begrudgingly will be iterating on the new toys).

PS; I don't think my idea is perfect but it seems better, although I am sure someone will correct me.

Furl

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Items were unbalanced when they were first added, but have been rebalanced using the amount of feedback we got by enabling them right from the start (that's how it usually works - imo you can only reach perfect balance by having enough people use them across all scenarios to have that feedback).

I feel like you might be a little late here because I personally haven't seen complains since the balance changes 3 days ago. TNT range has been greatly reduced which reduced the issue of dying through walls that you're referring to be pretty much non-existant.

Linzor pointed out that there should be separate tags for old explosions and new explosions, so BOOM and FIRE would not suffice since Sticky Grenades and TNT fall in the boom category.

I pointed out that most explosive items only work well in very specific scenarios, a crowded garden with 20-30 players inside being that exact scenario. I'm not an active CWer so I'm not 100% sure, but I do believe that you very rarely see people use any of these new (or old) explosive items in CWs because they are not viable in such scenarios (= large maps, little players), so I don't think they even affect CW negatively / much at all. (And in large TDM Garden rooms I still die to 2 hit grenades more often than any other explosive).

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Originally Posted by furl

So, to summarize if we go through with the 2 new inclusive tags, you would be able to:

1) play without any of these toys at all (by leaving both tags off)
2) with the flavor you like (by including a single tag)
3) or with everything by including both.

At that point, I think it would be safe to say nobody would be getting forced to play a certain way. Thoughts?

I would like to point out that if the new tag [FIRE] doesn't get traction in my suggested presentation perhaps a rotation (much like Quest of the Day) could be established which gives the [$LATEST ("FIRE" in this example)] tag onto rooms of a certain game-modes that day. I.e. It is now Wednesday, the dice landed on Deathmatch, now for the day all Deathmatch rooms which opted to include [FIRE] get a small boost (+10% exp? I leave this value completely to you). This will ensure that some users (albeit maybe begrudgingly will be iterating on the new toys).

PS; I don't think my idea is perfect but it seems better, although I am sure someone will correct me.

Furl

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The only thing I'd like to see is the removal of EX tag and make it so you can have a drop down menu of ALL items/explosives to choose from like a tick box instead of just not allowing all of them.

Oh and remove SGO tag. Want sgo? Go clan war :x