Meta game, broken hitboxes/anti-lead, rebalancing weapons

Just a quick intro about me,
My name is Kenny, I started GunZ 8 years ago and joined FGunZ 7 years ago. I haven't played GunZ in around 5 or so years until now.
After GunZ I moved towards competitive action shooters such as Quake, T:A, CS, Dirty Bomb, etc. I'm going to use my experience in these games to explain how this game could be improved.

I've played for about 2 hours and this is a thread where I'm going to mention things that I think have been implemented incorrectly, shouldn't be there at all, or should be changed.

I can upload multiple videos proving that this game is infact broken but I don't want to go to those lengths.

1. Meta game
95% of servers I've seen today all use the instant reload room modifier. Imo this has completely broken the meta game, people can just reload shot spam to their hearts content. All this modifier really does is buff the shotgun by increasing its fire rate and removing the need for reloading (which played a HUGE part in the early GunZ meta game where timed reloads and positioning were very important).

It's a fun thing I suppose but imo it kills a large part of the "thinking" required in this game. There needs to be some sort of restriction, I don't see why 9/10 servers are using such an EZ mode option.

The meta game should revolve purely around positioning and aim, with weapon choice being a large secondary factor. For many, many years the shotgun remains the #1 choice for dueling. Since GunZ has such fast paced movement the shotgun is really the only gun that can keep up due to its spread. Imo other weapons need to be buffed to make them more viable. I'll explain more on that later

2. Hitboxes and anti-lead
Anti-lead is still broken. It's come a long way from what it used to be but it's still not working properly. It's more than obvious that the game DOES NOT use client sided checks for hit registration (and if it does, then something is terribly wrong). I play this game with an average ping between 250-400 and while some shots do register, others are completely ****ed (possibly due to hitboxes).

I usually play with pistols and I'll get 5 confirmed hits with 48 dmg pistol, only to see my opponents hp is 89/132 and ap 11/112. Seriously? It's hard enough to get shots off with a pistol against someone dashing around but 5 48 damage shots do practically nothing. I need like 10 pistols (480 dmg) just to actually get the kill. This just extends upon my point that no gun in this game is really viable except the shotgun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cDK...ature=youtu.be
Seriously what in the world is this? An 84 dmg sniper only does 24 dmg on the second shot... clearly something wrong here

3. Weapons
Not much to say Weapons apart from the shotgun need to be unbuffed. Pistols should be buffed strongly and fire rate reduced, so you are rewarded if you can hit the shot while slash shotting. Rifles also need to be buffed damage wise and increased in weight/slow you down further so you have less mobility.

This game has been shotgun centric for way too long and that's pretty much only because the game has remained unbalanced. You should play around with weapons, increase the damage of weapons with higher skill ceilings and just experiment.

The sniper needs to have FOV scaling enabled. Zooming in pretty much doubles the sensitivity and makes it that much harder to hit anything, with ridiculous recoil that's instantaneous (put a delay after the shot).


I hope to see things fixed and some changes implemented within the next patch, there's been a lot of great changes so far but I think there's a few more things need to be tinkered with.

1.
Although I don't like a bunch of room tags either, it's too late to remove them since the players are used to it.
Most people will vote no to remove the room tags.

2.
The distance between players highly affects the anti-lead.
I'm not surprised that a lot of your hits don't register with a ping of 250-400.

A way to make it more "reliable" is to move the anti-lead to the server, but that will make all hits register a lot slower so that's not really an option.

The damage counter is also client sided, it doesn't confirm that you actually hit the person with that amount of damage.

3.
I could look into the weapon balancement for the next client version.

[r] should be only allowed for training rooms imo.

Sorry Kenny, don't want to be a bitch but, nobody is really gonna care, they wont do anything about it or try to improve or, implement something to help. If they do, *clap clap* .....there's been people who want to change or fix things, but they've been pushed aside, or thrown out of the community because they want change.

Nah waepons are fine..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nebula

Sorry Kenny, don't want to be a bitch but, nobody is really gonna care, they wont do anything about it or try to improve or, implement something to help. If they do, *clap clap* .....there's been people who want to change or fix things, but they've been pushed aside, or thrown out of the community because they want change.

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i agree 40% people just are too used to the fg we have today and are scared of change, i just hope the new developer Jetman82 will make fg better for all of us, I'm sure they could think of a solution to please all of us.

:o.o

1. cool pulling stats out of thin air
stop playing against bads

2. nothing can really be done about it

3. smh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amers

i agree 40% people just are too used to the fg we have today and are scared of change, i just hope the new developer Jetman82 will make fg better for all of us, I'm sure they could think of a solution to please all of us.

:o.o

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More like 90% and Fg wont get better lol. You will get add-ons, that's about it.

I'd like to see it change, would actually add up to a totally different game-experience. Although the game would offer a lot less diversity without roomtags (I do admit [R] gets abused though).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nebula

Sorry Kenny, don't want to be a bitch but, nobody is really gonna care, they wont do anything about it or try to improve or, implement something to help. If they do, *clap clap* .....there's been people who want to change or fix things, but they've been pushed aside, or thrown out of the community because they want change.

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Got an example?

Also keep in mind that we only have ONE active coder who is not fully experienced with the GunZ source yet.
Making changes is not as easy as you guys think, which unfortunately, most people don't understand for some reason.

People are like "just do this" or "just do that". No. It's not that simple.

same with the meta in gladiator. its all distorted so the weak become strong.

- - - Updated - - -

and I only fight NA because nothing leaded registers properly

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Originally Posted by Jiiigglypuff

same with the meta in gladiator. its all distorted so the weak become strong.

- - - Updated - - -

and I only fight NA because nothing leaded registers properly

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If the people you fight have less than 100 ping it should be okay to fight them, if your hits don't register against players with 20-30-40-50 its your problem not the servers.

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Originally Posted by Ollypayy

1. cool pulling stats out of thin air
stop playing against bads

2. nothing can really be done about it

3. smh

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I LUV UR AVATAR https://freestylersworld.com/customav...atar114_17.gif



TOPIC: I THINK THE ROOM TAGS ARE HORRIBLE, TOO MUCH PPL USIN' THE [R] ONE, BUT, WE CANT CHANGE THEYR MIND.
ANTI-LEAD/DMG COUNTER HAS TO BE FIXED, I KNOW ITS ALL SIDE CLIENTED BUT ABOUT 2 YEARS AGO IT WAS JUST FINE.
THX DAVE HOPE U GUYS GONNA FIX IT, SRY FOR CL

ya I said that I only fight NA which are up to like 60. and EU 70-100 -- its shoddy. say I fight a [sg,br,egypt,allah 100-250] its nauseating. at 300+ > godly

I feel what kennny is saying about the [R] tag i'm a proud oldie to gunz in general and FG played on this server since 08 and i remeber the feeling and tatics of playing while reloading now since the Tag is used everywhere on the server i tend to forget when im in cw that i have to reload.... This really effects a lot of oldgen players one of my homies re logged after 7 years and was like "WTF WHY AM I NOT RELOADING??" and i had too explain to him it's a new fuction to gunz.... i mean Keep it but limit it to Training rooms and Lock Room, lmao tbh a ***** shouldnt be Late dash wall posting for so damn long in castle air duels. It's becoming more crazy since kids on this server paying for hitboxes and aim fixes

If R didn't work in duels/tdms I think lots would be satisfied.

Is this Kennny kenny? Kenny of the Kenny kenny? (Kennny katana)

#fuk2limitbreker
(only mad cus I dont have one jaja)

yeah but seriously, the game's meta is terribly warped here. I hardly enjoy playing this version anymore because it lacks what all the best servers had, plus it added on a bunch of stuff that makes it further sub-par. OP basically had it all down-pat. I'll still play of course, I still love the game, and it's still GunZ, just... I believe a large part of the community would agree, there's a lot of changes that can be made that would make game play tons better for those who want it that way, while not affecting those who enjoy these extra additions that have changed the game from what it was to what this one is.

IE:
removing [R] from TDM(at least). It just doesn't belong. And of course people will disagree, those are the people who enjoy a less involved, more mindless spam game. limit it to team training and other game-modes?
de-buffing SGs as OP said. I'd like the delay to be lengthened on all of them by a notch, but I suppose there are other ways to balance them too.
fix the anti please? I know that's not a small nor new request but it will make everyone's time on the game so much more pleasing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kennny

I've played for about 2 hours

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lol

Pistols are just as good as shotguns if used properly, they didnt register for you because of the antilead/your 250+ping. The only real thing to discuss here is any change in anti lead(which people have been demanding for quite some time now) and whether or not you want to risk having some of the community cry out about the [R] tag. Seems like you have some support for it belonging in the training room so you could try and push for a vote on that i suppose. Nonetheless, welcome back

the only reason tags such as [r] will never get removed is because fgunz the only server where people would rather sit in training rooms 24/7 n party

oh and the antilead theirs a difference between hitting and hitting hard everyone can hit 8/10 9/10 but i also feel sometimes the antilead doesnt register hits but aye guess thats my 1mb/sec net :(

No one should be surprised that the DMG counter isn't accurate, it never has been, and I haven't seen a server that does have a good damage counter. I can look into fixing it, but you guys gotta understand the more requests I get the longer the patches are going to take, b/c I have to bug test everything I add. Antilead is something that I'll look into when I'm able to, but I want to get this current patch pushed out first, and then fix the antilead in a secondary patch (which wouldn't be far off). So, no need to be impatient, things are being looked at, it just takes time. As Dave said, I'm the only active coder at FG atm, and I'm not as experienced as previous devs, so it takes me a bit longer to get things finished.

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Originally Posted by Jetman

No one should be surprised that the DMG counter isn't accurate, it never has been, and I haven't seen a server that does have a good damage counter. I can look into fixing it, but you guys gotta understand the more requests I get the longer the patches are going to take, b/c I have to bug test everything I add. Antilead is something that I'll look into when I'm able to, but I want to get this current patch pushed out first, and then fix the antilead in a secondary patch (which wouldn't be far off). So, no need to be impatient, things are being looked at, it just takes time. As Dave said, I'm the only active coder at FG atm, and I'm not as experienced as previous devs, so it takes me a bit longer to get things finished.

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da na na na na na JET MAN!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jetman

want to get this current patch pushed out first, and then fix the antilead

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thank u for ur time o jetman senpai, pls continue to work hard for our love and appreciation

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jetman

No one should be surprised that the DMG counter isn't accurate, it never has been, and I haven't seen a server that does have a good damage counter. I can look into fixing it, but you guys gotta understand the more requests I get the longer the patches are going to take, b/c I have to bug test everything I add. Antilead is something that I'll look into when I'm able to, but I want to get this current patch pushed out first, and then fix the antilead in a secondary patch (which wouldn't be far off). So, no need to be impatient, things are being looked at, it just takes time. As Dave said, I'm the only active coder at FG atm, and I'm not as experienced as previous devs, so it takes me a bit longer to get things finished.

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It was broken since day one, so another month of waiting wouldn't be so bad :).

I'd be for removing the [R] tag from TDM's. A few people I've played with for a long time have said they feel like the [R] tag lowers the amount of skill required for them to play and it actually takes some of the enjoyment away from them when they kill people, compared to without it. I don't think it would be a bad thing, just different from how it currently is.

I've actually been thinking the weapons need some sort of balancing, shotguns seem more overpowered than they probably should be compared to other weapons, feels like there is almost no point in using anything else, except maybe a sniper. Sure you can do well with other weapons, but you have to excel far greater with them to get the same effectiveness as you would with shotguns, unless your only tactic is backpedaling, that works well with pistols, rifles ect. There are always exceptions to this and i'm sure a few of you do well with them not doing this, but i'm saying in general shotguns outpace anything else right now except snipers, im not sure if this is a direct result of the [R] tag or how the weapons are balanced at the moment, could be both.

This is more in response to Jetman but...in my opinion as far as patches go, i welcome the idea of incremental patches. Finish up the current item you are working on Jetman and release a patch with everything up to that point and then start working again and do another patch/release. It will only take 2 or 3 features to get people excited, possibly only 1 if its a biggie, it doesn't have to be 10 at once, plus that would lower the amount of possible troubleshooting should an unknown bug emerge. It also can raise interest in the server when people see more frequent updates, rather than 1 big one, of course you have to balance that, cant do too many, lets say if you do 20 updates in a year since Jetman is a beast(i dont expect that many haha) then people may start to just dismiss them "oh just another update". I think that makes sense. I see many benefits to do that rather than a snowballing effect with the other approach.

I know its hard being the only one working on the code though when people want 10 different things done, it takes time. I think Antilead would be the one that would require the most immersion of what has been mentioned that i have seen in suggestions lately. I think the dmg counter is big enough to be a patch by itself as well as the antilead to be honest, at least in my mind. Although i can see the likelihood of both of those having many overlapping parts depending on how they are implemented so that the dmg counter reflects accurately what the antilead is doing.

Anyways ive digressed a bit. There are things to be done and not many hands to help in the development of fgunz. I appreciate what each of the contributors have done and do though. I'm sure whatever Dave and the team decides will be for good reason.

The anti-lead is bad since the creation of this server.
The only change that has to be done for roomtags now is removing the [R] tag which is pretty annoying and remove some other useless roomtags that nobody ever uses them.
Weapons are balanced at it's finest, shouldn't do a change to them imo.


#fix3DSOUND
ty

Or just make a room without [R].

*problem solved*.

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Originally Posted by BártFG

Or just make an room without [R].

*problem solved*.

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you're funny haha

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Originally Posted by BártFG

Or just make an room without [R].

*problem solved*.

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a room*

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Originally Posted by Amers

[r] should be only allowed for training rooms imo.

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This ^.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zéxi

a room*

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Updated. Thanks ur one sexi-nazi damn im good. :o.o

balance shouldn't be adjusted because the anti-lead metagame is not well understood yet. it's changed how the game is played in some very complex ways, but from what i've seen the players have not yet really adjusted to the extent that they could. it's like everybody silently agreed to keep playing as ifthere were lead, yet everybody can just hit more easily now. if the meta game were properly developed everybody would probably be clamoring for revs to be nerfed into oblivion. maybe rifles too. and don't get me started on snipers. awful weapons.

TDM might not even be a legit competitive mode if people start to adapt, but that depends on a lot of things, especially item spawn control and map layout. and personally, i think duel is already terrible because of anti-lead.


[r] is dumb but nerds will never stop playing it so our only option is to make tagless rooms and pray smart players join.

I take full responsibility if there are any issues with the anti-lead. I've been working a full-time job (40 hour work week, sometimes more) and I don't really have time to help this community anymore. That being said there is a problem and I want to identify and fix it.

There's obviously an issue with both the anti-lead and the damage counter. I will be investigating to see if there's anything we can do to help w/ the anti-lead portion, and I will have Jetman investigate the damage counter.

I believe either one of these are broke, and chances are from what I have witnessed, it's probably the damage counter.

We'll see either way. I want to get the anti-lead fixed for you all either way if there is indeed a problem.

Can you provide an example of a weapon type that has issues with the anti-lead? Is it primarily shotguns? Revolvers? Please let me know, I'm going through this because this is my weekend to actually get this fixed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SecretsOTheP

I take full responsibility if there are any issues with the anti-lead. I've been working a full-time job (40 hour work week, sometimes more) and I don't really have time to help this community anymore. That being said there is a problem and I want to identify and fix it.

There's obviously an issue with both the anti-lead and the damage counter. I will be investigating to see if there's anything we can do to help w/ the anti-lead portion, and I will have Jetman investigate the damage counter.

I believe either one of these are broke, and chances are from what I have witnessed, it's probably the damage counter.

We'll see either way. I want to get the anti-lead fixed for you all either way if there is indeed a problem.

Can you provide an example of a weapon type that has issues with the anti-lead? Is it primarily shotguns? Revolvers? Please let me know, I'm going through this because this is my weekend to actually get this fixed.

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primarily shotguns

dmg counter is pretty broken on certain players, also it doesn't update when you do a killing blow with revolvers

sometime hits doesn't apply on whatever weapon, usually happens when matched against high ping or crap nets, you can notice that easily with snipers (people dieing with 3 hits when you can kill with only 2 hits on [v])

So we've done a small investigation and there's a high chance this will be fixed with the new patch that's coming out soon. It will fix an unrelated issue regarding player positioning, and as a result, the anti-lead will be more reliable against higher ping players. Here's what I think is happening:

-A client says it's at a future position
-Your client is at another position
-The hit! sound plays and registers but only specific parts of the game get triggered, which includes the hit sound, up until the anti-lead code.
-When the anti-lead code is triggered, and the person is at a future position, it will think they're at the old position and will not send the packet, and not execute any code past this point.

We'll see with the patch coming up soon if the fix we did actually works and then revisit this topic if it persists.

Thank you all for reporting information regarding this issue; it's helping us debug the issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SecretsOTheP

So we've done a small investigation and there's a high chance this will be fixed with the new patch that's coming out soon. It will fix an unrelated issue regarding player positioning, and as a result, the anti-lead will be more reliable against higher ping players. Here's what I think is happening:

-A client says it's at a future position
-Your client is at another position
-The hit! sound plays and registers but only specific parts of the game get triggered, which includes the hit sound, up until the anti-lead code.
-When the anti-lead code is triggered, and the person is at a future position, it will think they're at the old position and will not send the packet, and not execute any code past this point.

We'll see with the patch coming up soon if the fix we did actually works and then revisit this topic if it persists.

Thank you all for reporting information regarding this issue; it's helping us debug the issue.

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will these recent hitbox hack related shit finally be patched? don't know if this is your department but i'm just wonderin. :)))

remove accel vials from cw while u at it

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Originally Posted by nightbloom

will these recent hitbox hack related shit finally be patched? don't know if this is your department but i'm just wonderin. :)))

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Realistically, hack patching will be a cat-and-mouse game at this point. I cannot say for certain specifics, however, most hacks are patched after an update because of the way they are designed. I know who the hack designer is at this point and it's a matter of if they update their hacks.

Long-term? I don't think there's a permanent solution to the issue but we can certainly play cat and mouse with updates and changes. I'm more surprised it took the time it did for it to spread than anything else, considering the hack in question has been out for 6 months at this point.

I fully expect them to update the hack, however. I am not a fan of saying 'hacks are fixed', or 'hacks are patched', or anything like that. Because if I did say that, I'd be lying out my teeth. As you've seen on here, I don't like telling people 'ur hack is detected lol by bann ' immediately, I much rather ban with 100% certainty and be as vague as possible.

Furthermore, the GM team will be going through some revamps regarding what they can do and cannot do. I think a lot of the reason hacks spread so much is because of dishonesty within the staff team and how they handle bans, and player trust is important to us - GMs saying exactly what players got banned for is going to stop in general. And I fully expect us to create a privacy policy so rumors stay rumors.

In the case of shared accounts, we are going to not assist in these cases, so I recommend everyone to secure their account right now. We'll only speak with the original account owner after a verification process, about why they got banned. Even then, the answer will be vague - Observed using third party tools, scammed another player out of their account, performed an action that violates the FreeStyle GunZ code of conduct etc - going forward I think there will be a lot less issues of being muted/suspended/banned without concrete/not enough evidence and rumors about 'this guy got banned for x and this guy got banned for y' will stop.

When that privacy policy gets implemented, this will include GMs in that policy - you will not talk about your bans in public, you will create appeals in private. Attempting to harass the staff into disclosing your ban reason will result in forum account suspension/termination. Repeat offenders will be banned ingame. Extra special people will receive HWID bans. This policy will apply to GMs as well - if you see a GM violating this rule post-ban policy, you can report those to Dave or McSic as that's going to be considered a huge breach of privacy policies. Please note that this privacy policy is NOT in effect yet, and will be reviewed by Dave/McSic before going live for all players/GMs.

Ultimately bans/suspensions/mutes will still remain GM influenced and not lead administrative influenced, however, I believe this will alleviate some of the ban/hacking concerns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SecretsOTheP

I take full responsibility if there are any issues with the anti-lead. I've been working a full-time job (40 hour work week, sometimes more) and I don't really have time to help this community anymore. That being said there is a problem and I want to identify and fix it.

There's obviously an issue with both the anti-lead and the damage counter. I will be investigating to see if there's anything we can do to help w/ the anti-lead portion, and I will have Jetman investigate the damage counter.

I believe either one of these are broke, and chances are from what I have witnessed, it's probably the damage counter.

We'll see either way. I want to get the anti-lead fixed for you all either way if there is indeed a problem.

Can you provide an example of a weapon type that has issues with the anti-lead? Is it primarily shotguns? Revolvers? Please let me know, I'm going through this because this is my weekend to actually get this fixed.

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Snipers when you hit someones foot. 50% of the time it deals full weapon damage at the damage counter but hits the target for 0 dmg. Hitting with a sniper for full damage at the damage counter is strange itself since it commonly deals less damage then it's potential or none at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SecretsOTheP

So we've done a small investigation and there's a high chance this will be fixed with the new patch that's coming out soon. It will fix an unrelated issue regarding player positioning, and as a result, the anti-lead will be more reliable against higher ping players. Here's what I think is happening:

-A client says it's at a future position
-Your client is at another position
-The hit! sound plays and registers but only specific parts of the game get triggered, which includes the hit sound, up until the anti-lead code.
-When the anti-lead code is triggered, and the person is at a future position, it will think they're at the old position and will not send the packet, and not execute any code past this point.

We'll see with the patch coming up soon if the fix we did actually works and then revisit this topic if it persists.

Thank you all for reporting information regarding this issue; it's helping us debug the issue.

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That makes a lot of sense to me, that explains why it shows hit and plays the hit sound but no dmg is done sometimes. It seems to do it with any weapon used, rare on lower ping players but ive seen it still happen, seems to happen more often when players have high pings to each other. Yay. Thanks.