Elo system

Suggestion type:
Forum/FGunZ/Other
Elo system


Suggestion description:
Making a different predator for people who glad.



Listen, im sure bunny is an extremely good glad player im not taking that away from him. But realistically he and other glad players should be in their own category maybe a glad predator. Look at the top 20 players ranked by elo right now. Its literally people who only play both/ and use gun. Is it fair that bunny gate keeps rank 1 when in reality hell never ever face any of the other top 20 people on the elo ranking list? Do you think bunny would be able to keep all his elo if he joined a duel room with guns? Probably not, but i sure as hell would probably get slapped 11 0 by him in glad. Theyre 2 different playing fields. The top 20 people besides (bunny rank 1) vs each other consistently for that elo, i see and vs them in duels/tdms all the time.

very thought provoking, bro

who is bunny LOL

dude zaku wtf youve never heard of bunny? The number one player in the world, dominating 7% of players on fgunz. Currently sitting in ranked 1 named femboy with an average kd of 25.96 coming in hot with 4361 kills and 168 deaths. Hes in an out like a ghost, you cant catch him in a game ��. The other top 10 players are all scared to vs this monster! Hes swift like a lion, so you gotta be quick on your feet so you dont fall as prey. The other 93% of players on this game wont be able to touch him! Hes untouchable!! Rank 1> everyone else !!!

There are arguments both ways, which I'm sure most people here can fathom for themselves. Ill just choose to bring up the one I think is probably most relevant to why the system is in place just like it is right now.

I've been questioned by curious people for a while for how my elo is so high while gun players can't really ever get that high (not talking 6.5k, we have skilled people here. But the 10+k I had in the past? Good luck when you gain 1-2 per kill and lose 100 on death).

The simple reality is that gladiator is a lot more deterministic about an individuals skill level leading them to kill their opponent first. While not entirely truly deterministic due to factors like massive angle luck, enemy ****in up or just straight up ping, the trend for who wins in gladiator is a lot more consistency for the better player. In bnb, however, aim is such a random mechanic for the game that every player relies on more than anything else. You can be playing for 20 years straight and still might die to someone with 3 lucky pbs if you just cant predict their moves, and fights usually end in less than 15 seconds whereas gladiator usually pushes 30 to a minute, excluding bowing.

This means that theoretically its easier to gain elo as a gladiator, right? If youre good, youll climb. In bnb, if youre good, you might climb a bit, and still die a lot. Is it fair to put these two in the same category? Well, elo is currently implemented as a measure for your kills vs deaths, not taking into account clan wars and team wins and streaks influencing the numbers a bit (we also have team glad and glad cw, though). By looking at that metric in itself, it makes sense why theres no separation; if you can kill more without dying, surely youre better and deserve to have your elo increase. It just so happens that the skill ceiling for gun fighting is much much higher.

Both gamemodes are however still a 1v1 duel, and both duels resulted in a significant number of both types of players being on the top 20. I couldnt tell you based on the current top 20 who probably play a lot every day to keep up that rank, but historically, we had a lot of glad players up there and at a point, the top 3 were gladiators. Now if youre saying gladiator is a problem just because 1 person is up there (myself) and the rank 1 player isnt someone who plays your specific gamemode, you might want to rephrase your argument cause that just seems like an excuse to have the top ranked player a gun player exclusively (for some reason), while realistically it will probably never be you. I.e, this suggestion wouldnt exist if you didn't go to the rankings and realized the rank 1 player is a gladiator.

I saw him once he's not really top player he just top player sword at fg server because fg server has low class level of glad gameplay, otherwise there is no more real glad players anymore, i have nothing about bunny he looks good, but i agree with your idea for me it must be more balanced because Shotguns outplay is more hard to play than glad ( more skills,more tactics....)
and it's hard to be in streak of killing without any death
So i hope they make it more balanced

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bunny

There are arguments both ways, which I'm sure most people here can fathom for themselves. Ill just choose to bring up the one I think is probably most relevant to why the system is in place just like it is right now.

I've been questioned by curious people for a while for how my elo is so high while gun players can't really ever get that high (not talking 6.5k, we have skilled people here. But the 10+k I had in the past? Good luck when you gain 1-2 per kill and lose 100 on death).

The simple reality is that gladiator is a lot more deterministic about an individuals skill level leading them to kill their opponent first. While not entirely truly deterministic due to factors like massive angle luck, enemy ****in up or just straight up ping, the trend for who wins in gladiator is a lot more consistency for the better player. In bnb, however, aim is such a random mechanic for the game that every player relies on more than anything else. You can be playing for 20 years straight and still might die to someone with 3 lucky pbs if you just cant predict their moves, and fights usually end in less than 15 seconds whereas gladiator usually pushes 30 to a minute, excluding bowing.

This means that theoretically its easier to gain elo as a gladiator, right? If youre good, youll climb. In bnb, if youre good, you might climb a bit, and still die a lot. Is it fair to put these two in the same category? Well, elo is currently implemented as a measure for your kills vs deaths, not taking into account clan wars and team wins and streaks influencing the numbers a bit (we also have team glad and glad cw, though). By looking at that metric in itself, it makes sense why theres no separation; if you can kill more without dying, surely youre better and deserve to have your elo increase. It just so happens that the skill ceiling for gun fighting is much much higher.

Both gamemodes are however still a 1v1 duel, and both duels resulted in a significant number of both types of players being on the top 20. I couldnt tell you based on the current top 20 who probably play a lot every day to keep up that rank, but historically, we had a lot of glad players up there and at a point, the top 3 were gladiators. Now if youre saying gladiator is a problem just because 1 person is up there (myself) and the rank 1 player isnt someone who plays your specific gamemode, you might want to rephrase your argument cause that just seems like an excuse to have the top ranked player a gun player exclusively (for some reason), while realistically it will probably never be you. I.e, this suggestion wouldnt exist if you didn't go to the rankings and realized the rank 1 player is a gladiator.

---

You dont really have to say how a glad and a gun game work. You gained all that elo and kd from glad and it should be so, glads make up like 8% of the active players so youre literally farming the same people over and over. Is that probable for you to be number one when you only vs a small percentage of players on gunz that play your mode? And no this topic has been brought up more than once by many different people, surprised no ones taken action yet. You talk about glad being more "detrimental" comparing to bnb but you dont even play bnb lol.. youre saying bnb is a bit more lucky which is why no one can match your k/d which i find hilarious. Elo like you said is based on kills/deaths right. But if you were to put someone like run2u with a 3.8 ratio into a duel room with the other top 10 players, he should do fairly better than the other 10 no? We cant make that same argument with you because you play a different MODE. Hence my suggestion. Fake rank 1. Elo is based on kills and deaths true ok, but by your kd ratio of 25.9 it means you shit on basically 100% of players. Oh wait that play YOUR MODE. you shouldnt be put in the same category with the people in the current elo system.

Facts LOL. mans thinks he should be top 1 in an elo ladder full of guns players cus he has a better kd. Totally 2 different modes which should be made into 2 different elo ladders.

That is, Satan made EXP when there was a bug, what should we do? So far they have done nothing, the same is with Bunny but he got it with his skills, the other took advantage of a bug. LOL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zaku

That is, Satan made EXP when there was a bug, what should we do? So far they have done nothing, the same is with Bunny but he got it with his skills, the other took advantage of a bug. LOL

---

Yeah skills vs the same 12 people lol. You dont get known as the best player on gunz for winning a 1v1 tourney. You get known as the best 1v1 player. You dont get known as the best player on gunz for winning a 1v1 glad tourney, you get known for being the best glad player. Lol getting 10k elo and being rank 1 holds weight, but unfortunately for bunny it holds no weight :D:D:O

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by degijas1

You dont really have to say how a glad and a gun game work. You gained all that elo and kd from glad and it should be so, glads make up like 8% of the active players so youre literally farming the same people over and over. Is that probable for you to be number one when you only vs a small percentage of players on gunz that play your mode? And no this topic has been brought up more than once by many different people, surprised no ones taken action yet. You talk about glad being more "detrimental" comparing to bnb but you dont even play bnb lol.. youre saying bnb is a bit more lucky which is why no one can match your k/d which i find hilarious.

---

I don't need lecturing on what I can and can't talk about. I know how the game works and have played and was at one point or another at the top of each of the game-styles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by degijas1

Yeah skills vs the same 12 people lol. You dont get known as the best player on gunz for winning a 1v1 tourney. You get known as the best 1v1 player. You dont get known as the best player on gunz for winning a 1v1 glad tourney, you get known for being the best glad player. Lol getting 10k elo and being rank 1 holds weight, but unfortunately for bunny it holds no weight :D:D:O

---

Your logic is flawed. You don't get known as the best player on gunz for winning a 1v1 tourney? correct. You don't get known as the best player on gunz for winning a 1v1 glad tourney? correct.

This implicates nothing on the elo system, which is based on kills and deaths, and influenced by winnings in team modes, clan wars, and duels. This is a metric which is supposed to classify who the best players on Gunz are, as a culmination of a lot of factors pertaining to how one might measure skill level.

That, in fact, is why elo is gained in both gun modes and gladiator modes; both are considered skillful and deserving of elo gain. That is why it makes no sense to separate a category that takes into consideration all levels of commonly agreed upon skill-requiring modes. If you want, maybe your suggestion should say that additional rankings for gladiator and non-gladiator modes should be added into the game.

But elo, by definition, is a representation of the top ranking in everything that is included in its increase and decrease - both glad and non glad. Just like experience ranking doesn't care if you gained it questing or killing someone in team deathmatch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bunny

I don't need lecturing on what I can and can't talk about. I know how the game works and have played and was at one point or another at the top of each of the game-styles.



Your logic is flawed. You don't get known as the best player on gunz for winning a 1v1 tourney? correct. You don't get known as the best player on gunz for winning a 1v1 glad tourney? correct.

This implicates nothing on the elo system, which is based on kills and deaths, and influenced by winnings in team modes, clan wars, and duels. This is a metric which is supposed to classify who the best players on Gunz are, as a culmination of a lot of factors pertaining to how one might measure skill level.

That, in fact, is why elo is gained in both gun modes and gladiator modes; both are considered skillful and deserving of elo gain. That is why it makes no sense to separate a category that takes into consideration all levels of commonly agreed upon skill-requiring modes. If you want, maybe your suggestion should say that additional rankings for gladiator and non-gladiator modes should be added into the game.

But elo, by definition, is a representation of the top ranking in everything that is included in its increase and decrease - both glad and non glad. Just like experience ranking doesn't care if you gained it questing or killing someone in team deathmatch.

---

Yes what youre explaining is how to gain elo or farm elo to become first. But what does the title rank 1 mean? Lets ask chatgpt:

"In the context of a game, "rank 1" typically refers to the highest achievable rank or position in a particular ranking or leaderboard system. It signifies that the player holding rank 1 has achieved the highest score, rating, or level of performance among all the players in that game. Rank 1 is often seen as an indication of exceptional skill, expertise, or dedication within the game's community. It can be a prestigious accomplishment and is often a coveted goal for competitive players."

"Achieved the highest score, rating or level of performance among ALL players in that game" half of its true, being you have the highest score. All players in this game nawww youre not even top 50.

But you shouldnt say what i should be suggesting... no no no. My logic isnt flawed youre just too stuck on what elo system is and how it moves you have no clue what the meaning of rank 1 means. How are you top 1 among all the players in this server if you dont even play with 10% of this server on a competitive level?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by degijas1

"Achieved the highest score, rating or level of performance among ALL players in that game" half of its true, being you have the highest score. All players in this game nawww youre not even top 50.

But you shouldnt say what i should be suggesting... no no no. My logic isnt flawed youre just too stuck on what elo system is and how it moves you have no clue what the meaning of rank 1 means. How are you top 1 among all the players in this server if you dont even play with 10% of this server on a competitive level?

---

Your logic is flawed because you think elo by nature means you're better than every single player in the game, whereas by common definition in every popular game with multiple gamemodes, like in league of legends' role mechanic, you cannot separate challenger players based on what role they play and claim that a challenger rank 1 support player can defeat any of the top 10 midlaners if he queues mid.

What is elo ?
"Elo is a rating system originally developed by Arpad Elo, a Hungarian-American physics professor and chess player. The Elo rating system is widely used in competitive games and sports to measure the relative skill levels of players or teams."

According to this if i understand correctly a 4k elo player is > a 3k elo player. If you have higher elo its suggested that you're better. So you being rank 1 you > ommadawn correct?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by degijas1

What is elo ?
"Elo is a rating system originally developed by Arpad Elo, a Hungarian-American physics professor and chess player. The Elo rating system is widely used in competitive games and sports to measure the relative skill levels of players or teams."

According to this if i understand correctly a 4k elo player is > a 3k elo player. If you have higher elo its suggested that you're better. So you being rank 1 you > ommadawn correct?

---

Good job! You have reached the logical conclusion.

"Arpad Elo's system revolutionized the way player ratings were calculated in chess and had a significant impact on the competitive chess world. The Elo rating system provided a more accurate and dynamic way of measuring a player's skill level, taking into account the strength of opponents and the outcome of games.

Arpad Elo's contributions extended beyond chess, as his rating system became widely adopted in other competitive fields, such as sports and online gaming. His work laid the foundation for modern rating systems used to assess relative skill levels in various domains."

Yes were all playing chess, you're playing checkers. A 6k elo player in chess is better than a 5k elo player in chess.
A 6k elo player in checkers is not better than a 6k elo player in CHESS. Its comparing apples and oranges.

i think elo really only serve as a competitive filler for players until ladder mode releases, but feel like elo system holds zero weight to how good a player is so i could care less about whos placed where. unless elo were to be excluded from garden TDMs + AnD & the like it’s hard to be taken serious as a competitive system for gun players.

i do think difference between glad & gun elo should be made though, it hilarious when a player who primarily play guns (and not good) reaches 5k elo as they clearly farmed noobs in a glad only game mode but join a gun room and leave at the first sight of decent player.

elo changed the way people play in an annoying way, and that’s just one example.

and even if i think elo holds no weight as to how decent people are in the game, i would like to see a leaderboard that distinguishes glad players from gun players. the only good glad player i’m sure we’ve all seen in the “top 5/10” has been bunny; and the rest has been crowded by gun players leaving no room for gladiator players & i think we can come to mutual agreement that guns and glad are basically two different games :)

i thoroughly read through every post in this thread and came up with a solution that solves all the problems...

remove elo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zaku

That is, Satan made EXP when there was a bug, what should we do? So far they have done nothing, the same is with Bunny but he got it with his skills, the other took advantage of a bug. LOL

---

What should we do? Make a new ladder season à là League of Legends / Diablo / whatever the **** you name it and reset all elos and make different ladders for both glad and guns. Problem solved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SunRui

i think elo really only serve as a competitive filler for players until ladder mode releases, but feel like elo system holds zero weight to how good a player is so i could care less about whos placed where. unless elo were to be excluded from garden TDMs + AnD & the like it’s hard to be taken serious as a competitive system for gun players.

i do think difference between glad & gun elo should be made though, it hilarious when a player who primarily play guns (and not good) reaches 5k elo as they clearly farmed noobs in a glad only game mode but join a gun room and leave at the first sight of decent player.

elo changed the way people play in an annoying way, and that’s just one example.

and even if i think elo holds no weight as to how decent people are in the game, i would like to see a leaderboard that distinguishes glad players from gun players. the only good glad player i’m sure we’ve all seen in the “top 5/10” has been bunny; and the rest has been crowded by gun players leaving no room for gladiator players & i think we can come to mutual agreement that guns and glad are basically two different games :)

---

Exactly tell bunny that, this guy keeps trying to tell me how elo is gained or lost and he doesnt think there should be a different elo ladder... like dude its playing chess and checkers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by degijas1

Exactly tell bunny that, this guy keeps trying to tell me how elo is gained or lost and he doesnt think there should be a different elo ladder... like dude its playing chess and checkers.

---

Every one of your replies just sends me these vibes.

https://i.imgflip.com/7sd9ah.jpg

On topic: No where did I disagree that separate rankings for the various gamemode we have in place would benefit in feeding the egos of whatever players think they can get rank 1 in their specific category. It's actually a good idea - but a global ranking is what most games are ranked by these days. For those games where there are separate types of styles and "roles"; see league of legends; the elo gain/loss is balanced such that on average you would see approximately the same number of people in reach lane in the top 100. This seems like a balancing act that FGunZ unfortunately will struggle to tune due to the low playercount.

In my opinion the elo system does nothing good for the game. It only creates an even more toxic environment. Like Skilly is saying, it should be removed. For now at least.

Elo or tiers can be brought back when ladder releases. Where u can play normal ladder AND glad ladder separately and earn elo depending on what mode you play. If you decide to go to training mode or a different mode in the free channel it will show your elo or tier on the last ladder mode you played.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bunny

Every one of your replies just sends me these vibes.

https://i.imgflip.com/7sd9ah.jpg

On topic: No where did I not disagree that separate rankings for the various gamemode we have in place would benefit in feeding the egos of whatever players think they can get rank 1 in their specific category. It's actually a good idea - but a global ranking is what most games are ranked by these days. For those games where there are separate types of styles and "roles"; see league of legends; the elo gain/loss is balanced such that on average you would see approximately the same number of people in reach lane in the top 100. This seems like a balancing act that FGunZ unfortunately will struggle to tune due to the low playercount.

---

yeah and you sound salty that your title doesn't mean anything in the BNB world, despite holding onto rank 1 for so long and going for 10k elo ROFL. You're league example is terrible, you said "different rolls" right sure, but they play the same mode which is 5v5 Ranked etc. Sword and BNB duel are not the same mode, they are 2 different modes, now if you were to compare League of legends to League of legends TRT then sure or 5v5 RANKED is different than 3v3 RANKED twisted tree line in league. I miss that map hahahaha. If you thought it was a good idea originally why would u make us go through this debate, looks like you're trying very hard to stay top 1 of the BNB world as a glad ROFL.

Different roles would be lets say garden one person has double SGs another person has flamethrower nades, another person has spray or revs. but theyre playing the SAME MODE TDM GARDEN.

In league if you're diamond in twisted tree line that doesnt mean youre diamond in 5v5 ranked........

its called GunZ and not SwordZ

2 totaly diferent playstay should be totaly 2 diferent elo even in lol you have ranking for each position

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bunny

Every one of your replies just sends me these vibes.

https://i.imgflip.com/7sd9ah.jpg

On topic: No where did I not disagree that separate rankings for the various gamemode we have in place would benefit in feeding the egos of whatever players think they can get rank 1 in their specific category. It's actually a good idea - but a global ranking is what most games are ranked by these days. For those games where there are separate types of styles and "roles"; see league of legends; the elo gain/loss is balanced such that on average you would see approximately the same number of people in reach lane in the top 100. This seems like a balancing act that FGunZ unfortunately will struggle to tune due to the low playercount.

---

I don't see any problem by separating it, since the Elo system is not showing much right now (i totally agree on sunrui). Any efficient and low effort way to improve it even a little bit, is affordable to a "dead game". I'd like to see how it goes. Using other games as base to argumentate on gunz is kinda pointless, this game has an unique playstyle that people would like to be able checking its skills among the community even if it's not accurate as we wish. Even a hotfix by using same earning/losses points rules applying to a glad Elo would be better than it is right now.

They are taking it very seriously, relax and don't f*ck around, if you can't reach rank 1 don't be sad, you'll be there soon Kappa

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shang

In my opinion the elo system does nothing good for the game. It only creates an even more toxic environment. Like Skilly is saying, it should be removed. For now at least.

Elo or tiers can be brought back when ladder releases. Where u can play normal ladder AND glad ladder separately and earn elo depending on what mode you play. If you decide to go to training mode or a different mode in the free channel it will show your elo or tier on the last ladder mode you played.

---

I honestly agree and dont even mind if they took it out, but realistically they probably wont take something out that they worked so hard to implement, on top of that its clearly being used to the fullest by some people whether it be a grind or not. We saw first hand why they didnt take out the nades/flamethrowers/explosives etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shang

In my opinion the elo system does nothing good for the game. It only creates an even more toxic environment. Like Skilly is saying, it should be removed. For now at least.

Elo or tiers can be brought back when ladder releases. Where u can play normal ladder AND glad ladder separately and earn elo depending on what mode you play. If you decide to go to training mode or a different mode in the free channel it will show your elo or tier on the last ladder mode you played.

---

I agree with you, but i hope the ladder would be nice, because if ladder will be for all the guns it would be toxic mode
Snipers,rockets,camping even the ladder will not change any activity, Simply instead of playing Tdm garden 32 they go ladder, what's the point?
For me i am looking for something upgrade the server and get a good players and be more comptitive
Not to open threads to talk about some1 playing glad and farming oh god this game going crazy at 2023 :D
Anyways i hope staff do more work about making the server looking more good, ***Support Clan wars mode***
At least add /draw for round it is easy for you guys to do..

We'll probably show seperate elo depending on which mode you're playing [elo - gladiator elo]. So if you're in a gladiator room it shows your gladiator elo, whereas in regular rooms it shows your [regular] elo. We'll also have to seperate rankings on the website for that.

I see some other / different suggestions in this thread. If you want us and others to pay attention to your individual suggestions please post your own / seperate threads for them.