Sticky nades

I might be a crybaby or a party pooper for this one but its getting out of hand lately.

I have noticed that more and more people are starting to use this strategy where they throw sticky nades on themselves and its pretty unfair.
There are basically two playstyles they use.

1 - Use speed vials and rush into an enemy or enemy base and suicide bomb them.

2 - Camp the whole game with SSH shotguns equipped and wait for the enemy to lose patience so they rush you.

U cant run away from the 1st playstyle because they will catch up to you with their speed vials and shoot you down, you cant stagger them with your sword because they only use their swords to block while they are charging in, most of the time you cant kill them fast enough because they are blocking the entire time so lots of pellets wont do damage and they are too fast to be flipped (might be a skill issue on my part, im terrible in swordplay).

The 2nd playstyle is straight up unhealthy. These campers wont go outside of their base so you have to make the choice of going in the base or waiting it out until they lose their patience (they dont). If you lose your patience and decide to go in, you get 2 shotted by the SSH shotguns they equip themselves with (terrible idea to make those SH and SSH to begin with but thats for another time). If you decide to wait it out you either have a team thats going to kick you for not going in or they are straight up leaving the room, which will kill the room eventually.

Both playstyles are extremely unfair and not fun to play against. Its not fair that I get punished for killing an enemy (what I should be doing in a TDM right?). Its not fair that I die in situations where an enemy suddenly pops up in front of me or behind me and I kill them, just to die by their nades. You dont have enough time to check if they have nades on them and you obviously want to kill them before they kill you. There are more situations that are really bullshit, but too hard for me to explain, but I hope I got the point across.

I have been thinking on how to change the sticky nades and honestly, I have no clue. You can limit the amount of sticky nades they can throw on themselves by a significant margin, you can completely remove the ability of throwing them on yourself, you can put a timer on the sticky nades you attached on yourself or you can reduce the damage of the nades you stick on yourself. It might kill the strategy entirely but I dont think the purpose of sticky nades was to cosplay kamikaze pilots or playing terrorist. I dont like ruining the fun for others but this is just too much.

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Approved Changes: https://freestylersworld.com/showthr...=1#post1105422

Si I agree, but there is also playstyle number 3 that I commented on a different thread:

McSic If you reading this then at the very least make it so that if you throw sticky nades at the enemy it explodes immediately. I've seen people having friends on the opposite team so that they could throw sticky nades at them so that they then could run to one of their allies and tell their friend on the opposite team to make them explode, there is no way to defend yourself against it if your ally are carrying it for enemy.

Thanks for being the one to start the topic. I've been voicing my frustration inside the chat for some time now. When sticky nades were first added it was pretty enjoyable. No one really had the idea to suicide bomb. They were more focused on sticking enemies and walls for suprise explosions. Correct me if im wrong but I also think that you didn't have the ability to stick yourself at first release? Idk.

But now it's become worse than molotov spam. Every garden room has at least 3 suicide bombers actively playing. The only current counter to them really is just stun nades and spray weapons while keeping distance (not going basement for obvious reasons).

My solution would be to shift focus from sticking yourself to sticming enemies again. We could try adding effects to sticky nades:

-stick yourself/team causes a reduction in movement speed. Maybe 5% per nade? That way when the speed vials are used it'll basically bring them up to normal speed. The only issue with this would be trolls sticking team mates to intentionally lower their movement speed. Not sure what a workaround would be off the top of my head.

- sticking enemies would cause them to flinch and/or also see a reduction in movement speed. Similar to being slashed, the player would flinch after being stuck with a nade. This would work well when hiding behind a corner as you spot an enemy rushing down the hall after you. Toss one or two stickies and they're already needing to rethink their tactics. But too late because they're slowed down to a snails pace and get melted by the rest of the enemy team, and don't forget about the 160 damage upon detonation.

This is the only solution I can think of without removing the ability to stick each other and yourself.

Or just allow each player to hold one or two sticky nades to theirselves and the same limit for team mates.

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Originally Posted by Linzor

McSic If you reading this then at the very least make it so that if you throw sticky nades at the enemy it explodes immediately. I've seen people having friends on the opposite team so that they could throw sticky nades at them so that they then could run to one of their allies and tell their friend on the opposite team to make them explode, there is no way to defend yourself against it if your ally are carrying it for enemy.

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This is a great point to bring up. Teaming up while on opposite teams is already a huge issue to begin with between clan mates and just buddies in general.

However, with your suggestion (although I agree with it as a means to negate this toxicity stray) is basically turning sticky nades into another blast/impact nade.

I agree. They should be changed in some way. I don't really like having to run away and shoot someone otherwise I die when I kill them :(.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shang

I might be a crybaby or a party pooper for this one but its getting out of hand lately.

I have noticed that more and more people are starting to use this strategy where they throw sticky nades on themselves and its pretty unfair.
There are basically two playstyles they use.

1 - Use speed vials and rush into an enemy or enemy base and suicide bomb them.

2 - Camp the whole game with SSH shotguns equipped and wait for the enemy to lose patience so they rush you.

U cant run away from the 1st playstyle because they will catch up to you with their speed vials and shoot you down, you cant stagger them with your sword because they only use their swords to block while they are charging in, most of the time you cant kill them fast enough because they are blocking the entire time so lots of pellets wont do damage and they are too fast to be flipped (might be a skill issue on my part, im terrible in swordplay).

The 2nd playstyle is straight up unhealthy. These campers wont go outside of their base so you have to make the choice of going in the base or waiting it out until they lose their patience (they dont). If you lose your patience and decide to go in, you get 2 shotted by the SSH shotguns they equip themselves with (terrible idea to make those SH and SSH to begin with but thats for another time). If you decide to wait it out you either have a team thats going to kick you for not going in or they are straight up leaving the room, which will kill the room eventually.

Both playstyles are extremely unfair and not fun to play against. Its not fair that I get punished for killing an enemy (what I should be doing in a TDM right?). Its not fair that I die in situations where an enemy suddenly pops up in front of me or behind me and I kill them, just to die by their nades. You dont have enough time to check if they have nades on them and you obviously want to kill them before they kill you. There are more situations that are really bullshit, but too hard for me to explain, but I hope I got the point across.

I have been thinking on how to change the sticky nades and honestly, I have no clue. You can limit the amount of sticky nades they can throw on themselves by a significant margin, you can completely remove the ability of throwing them on yourself, you can put a timer on the sticky nades you attached on yourself or you can reduce the damage of the nades you stick on yourself. It might kill the strategy entirely but I dont think the purpose of sticky nades was to cosplay kamikaze pilots or playing terrorist. I dont like ruining the fun for others but this is just too much.

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Get rid of sticky grenades
Get rid of flamethrowers
Get rid of grenade launchers
Get rid of landmines
Get rid of molotovs
Get rid of poison smoke
Get rid of insta training swords

Dumpster that shlt like the spy case please

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Linzor

Si I agree, but there is also playstyle number 3 that I commented on a different thread:

McSic If you reading this then at the very least make it so that if you throw sticky nades at the enemy it explodes immediately. I've seen people having friends on the opposite team so that they could throw sticky nades at them so that they then could run to one of their allies and tell their friend on the opposite team to make them explode, there is no way to defend yourself against it if your ally are carrying it for enemy.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Desecration

Thanks for being the one to start the topic. I've been voicing my frustration inside the chat for some time now. When sticky nades were first added it was pretty enjoyable. No one really had the idea to suicide bomb. They were more focused on sticking enemies and walls for suprise explosions. Correct me if im wrong but I also think that you didn't have the ability to stick yourself at first release? Idk.

But now it's become worse than molotov spam. Every garden room has at least 3 suicide bombers actively playing. The only current counter to them really is just stun nades and spray weapons while keeping distance (not going basement for obvious reasons).

My solution would be to shift focus from sticking yourself to sticming enemies again. We could try adding effects to sticky nades:

-stick yourself/team causes a reduction in movement speed. Maybe 5% per nade? That way when the speed vials are used it'll basically bring them up to normal speed. The only issue with this would be trolls sticking team mates to intentionally lower their movement speed. Not sure what a workaround would be off the top of my head.

- sticking enemies would cause them to flinch and/or also see a reduction in movement speed. Similar to being slashed, the player would flinch after being stuck with a nade. This would work well when hiding behind a corner as you spot an enemy rushing down the hall after you. Toss one or two stickies and they're already needing to rethink their tactics. But too late because they're slowed down to a snails pace and get melted by the rest of the enemy team, and don't forget about the 160 damage upon detonation.

This is the only solution I can think of without removing the ability to stick each other and yourself.

Or just allow each player to hold one or two sticky nades to theirselves and the same limit for team mates.

- - - Updated - - -



This is a great point to bring up. Teaming up while on opposite teams is already a huge issue to begin with between clan mates and just buddies in general.

However, with your suggestion (although I agree with it as a means to negate this toxicity stray) is basically turning sticky nades into another blast/impact nade.

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Good points.

I can set it to explode immediately when stuck to an enemy.

It should be possible to make an acceleration vial have no effect on you while stuck with a sticky, and possibly add an additional slow effect as well.

But this will have to wait until I get home next week.

It seems like some of the problems stem from the fact that dead players' sticky nades explode when they die. It would be a decent nerf to suicide bombers if they had to activate their nades before they actually die and thus suicide without the guarantee of killing anyone because they have to time their activation before their death.

Suicide bombers' sticky nades should just vanish when they die if there were any active in the first place.

The play style is definitely annoying.

Other sticky nade suggestions:

1) Nerf: Reduce sticky nade clip size or damage, but not both at once (This would discourage the play style and reduce its effectiveness, as well as planting a bunch of stickies on a wall and camping)

2) Buff: Make all sticky nades explode at same time rather than sequentially (Not sure if this is live already)

3) Incentivize sticking enemies: Increase hit detection radius so they "latch" onto enemies easier and do increased damage when an enemy is stuck

Could reduce movement speed with stickies attached, but teammates could troll you this way?

Could have stickies do half-damage when exploding upon death, which might be a simple solution?

Just some food for thought~

Edit: Limiting the # of stickies someone can be stuck with is also an interesting workaround

i don't even think this weapon playstyle belongs in gunz in the first place.

no offense to devs but it's just an unfun item to play against all around whether is used properly or not.

sticky traps more effective + harder to see than mines, the dmg is ridiculous, suicide bombers & takes away any initiative to bother killing these people.

heavy nerfs to this item (+mines/molotovs) plz

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1 - Use speed vials and rush into an enemy or enemy base and suicide bomb them.

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i would also like if speedy vials had a sound loop to them in addition to the visual fx to let u know when someones actively using them; they're too quiet

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Originally Posted by Frooples

Good points.

I can set it to explode immediately when stuck to an enemy.

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I really disagree. I like the fact that you as the nade user have complete control over the detonation timing. It makes for some fun use. Do a bunch of damage to an enemy, toss a sticky nade on them, allow them to run to heal. Press the button for ultimate disrespect.

Forcing them to detonate on impact, like I said, just turns them into blast nades. If anything maybe force them to explode after 10 seconds?

Actually someone mentioned the fact that sticky nades do in fact have preset timers to them already?? If that's the case lower the timer to something super low. Ten seconds comes to mind first. This would prevent those teaming up against enemies to work together to get their team killed. And if the choice is to lower the detonation timer, then have it so that the timer is lower when sticking yourself and a bit higher when sticking enemies.

I really believe adding slower movement speed when stuck would be the best way to go about this issue though. That and lower the (if there is one to begin with) auto detonation timer to something more ideal.

Also forgot about sticking objects/the map. Idk if tinkering with this aspect would do anything as most people just suicide bomb already. But I could see nerfs forcing players to just throw stickies at a corner and camp that way so then we'd be back to square one...


Also another suggestion would be to increase the time between each nade detonation so that it makes suixide bombing damn near impossible as the player will be able to run away before each nade damages them.

OR reduce the damage that the nades do when sticking yourself/your team as opposed to sticking an enemy. Instead of 80 damage a nade make it 30 a nade. Thats 180 damage for a suicide bomb instead of 480 damage. Or if 30 is too severe of a nerf, try 40 (240 dmg).

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Originally Posted by Armani

The play style is definitely annoying.

Other sticky nade suggestions:

1) Nerf: Reduce sticky nade clip size or damage, but not both at once (This would discourage the play style and reduce its effectiveness, as well as planting a bunch of stickies on a wall and camping)

2) Buff: Make all sticky nades explode at same time rather than sequentially (Not sure if this is live already)

3) Incentivize sticking enemies: Increase hit detection radius so they "latch" onto enemies easier and do increased damage when an enemy is stuck

Could reduce movement speed with stickies attached, but teammates could troll you this way?

Could have stickies do half-damage when exploding upon death, which might be a simple solution?

Just some food for thought~

Edit: Limiting the # of stickies someone can be stuck with is also an interesting workaround

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I like a lot of these ideas. Nerfing the clip size would instantly remove suicide bombing. Nerf it to 3 or 4 clip.

I don't like the idea of them all exploding at the same time. We're trying to get away from suicide bombing, not encourage it more.

Number three I really like. Almost reminds me of Halos plasma nades (the way they would sometimes latch on) this would really encourage using them against enemies rather than yourself.

I agree that the movement speed reduction can cause a lot of troll scenarios. Maybe lowest movement speed when sticking yourself and still lower movement speed when sticking a teammate, but not as much to help counter the trolling possibilities. Maybe remove the ability to stick youe teammate all together? After all it is up to you as the player to choose to bring sticky nades or not. If a team mate really wants someone to sticky them then they should have the willingness to give up an item of theirs to use them and not rely on teammates to stick them.

Oooor even better: only allow sticky nades to stick enemies and the map. Nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Desecration

I really disagree. I like the fact that you as the nade user have complete control over the detonation timing. It makes for some fun use. Do a bunch of damage to an enemy, toss a sticky nade on them, allow them to run to heal. Press the button for ultimate disrespect.

Forcing them to detonate on impact, like I said, just turns them into blast nades. If anything maybe force them to explode after 10 seconds?

Actually someone mentioned the fact that sticky nades do in fact have preset timers to them already?? If that's the case lower the timer to something super low. Ten seconds comes to mind first. This would prevent those teaming up against enemies to work together to get their team killed. And if the choice is to lower the detonation timer, then have it so that the timer is lower when sticking yourself and a bit higher when sticking enemies.

I really believe adding slower movement speed when stuck would be the best way to go about this issue though. That and lower the (if there is one to begin with) auto detonation timer to something more ideal.

Also forgot about sticking objects/the map. Idk if tinkering with this aspect would do anything as most people just suicide bomb already. But I could see nerfs forcing players to just throw stickies at a corner and camp that way so then we'd be back to square one...


Also another suggestion would be to increase the time between each nade detonation so that it makes suixide bombing damn near impossible as the player will be able to run away before each nade damages them.

OR reduce the damage that the nades do when sticking yourself/your team as opposed to sticking an enemy. Instead of 80 damage a nade make it 30 a nade. Thats 180 damage for a suicide bomb instead of 480 damage. Or if 30 is too severe of a nerf, try 40 (240 dmg).

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That's some really good ideas, I especially like these:

- Slow players that have grenades sticked to them (by a certain % for each grenade)
- Grenades sticked to players detonate automatically after 10 seconds if not triggered
- Reduce damage of grenades sticked to yourself or your team mates by 50%

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Originally Posted by Armani

3) Incentivize sticking enemies: Increase hit detection radius so they "latch" onto enemies easier

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This is also an interesting thought.

The following changes have been implemented for the next update:

- Players that have grenades sticked to them are slowed by 10% for each grenade (only affects yourself or enemies)
- Reduced damage of grenades sticked to yourself or your team mates by 50% (grenades sticked to enemies do 200% damage)
- Sticky grenades now "latch" onto enemies easier when thrown (to incentivize sticking enemies)

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Originally Posted by McSic

The following changes have been implemented for the next update:

- Players that have grenades sticked to them are slowed by 10% for each grenade (only affects yourself or enemies)
- Reduced damage of grenades sticked to yourself or your team mates by 50% (grenades sticked to enemies do 200% damage)
- Sticky grenades now "latch" onto enemies easier when thrown (to incentivize sticking enemies)

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these sound great, not on topic but any chance mines or molotov will get looked at this patch too?

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Originally Posted by SunRui

these sound great, not on topic but any chance mines or molotov will get looked at this patch too?

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Mines are also getting some changes to prevent camping, yeah. Molotovs aren't (yet).

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Originally Posted by McSic

The following changes have been implemented for the next update:

- Players that have grenades sticked to them are slowed by 10% for each grenade (only affects yourself or enemies)

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how this works with acceleration vials?

Moved to Have Been Added, due to the latest update. Read the thread to see the full list of changes on Sticky Grenades, they are a bit different from what was posted here by McSic due to testing by Testers.