just trying to prove a point
YES = KEEP
NO = REMOVE
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just trying to prove a point
YES = KEEP
NO = REMOVE
I can see why people would want it removed, but can't see the justification behind actually doing it.
People should just start making their own rooms more often.
Don't like Snipers/Only like SGs? Make a room with with [sgo]
Don't like RLs/Nades? Make a room with [ex]
Don't like anti-lead? Make a room with [lead]
There isn't anything wrong with the tags, it's just people who hate them refusing to make their own rooms. Tags only allow people to play the way they wish to play. They may be OP, but removing them just removes the ability for people to choose how they want to play.
I'm talking about tags in general because I've seen a lot of people complain about other ones.
How they want to play mhm.
Snipers in a normal room are far-less OP than in a room with [R].
Shotguns, people on this server got terrible aim (average) speaking because they spam.
Because they got terrible aim they don't cw because they know they won't win.
[LEAD] the antilead doesn't work 100% everytime anyway.
Sometimes you do 90dmg and for the same shot 9 dmg no matter what distance, sometimes you hit 2x on the body it makes two hits sounds and gives 0 dmg.
----
IMAGINE they removed [r]
At first like 3 people would care, but after that no one would.
[R] also made infection mode very unbalanced and would be less of a exp farm.
After [R] would be removed more people would join because of the cw prize but because currently when there are no cws there are no decent tdms either no one joins.
If [R] was removed no one would leave because of the fact it got removed.
1. They mostlikely leveled why leave anyway you won't find [r] anywhere else FOR A REASON.
2. You already donated, you won't find [r] anywhere else why leave.
3. You know the server, you won't find [r] anywhere else for a reason.
Basically, [R] is just used to increase OPness, and decrease the amount of players.
Edit;
At first [DMG3] was removed from quest the first 10 minutes people cared, after that they didn't.
After that I think they removed [dmg] tags from infection mode guess what, 1 day they cared after that they didn't.
listen guys we have to force a meta unless you wanna stick with a skilless tag that takes up 78% of the rooms made on this server. time to put it in its grave
[R] tag is a little bit bigger than the [DMG3] tag ever was.
Whenever I saw a room with [DM3] back in the day I would just avoid joining them and
1. Join a different room without the tag
2. Make my own room without the tag, problem solved.
theres tons of people on here who love the [R] tag, they don't want to adjust to the play style non [r] users use, cause they're used to playing WITH it.
and having to re-learn a dead game has no point.
that being said. follow the two steps above.
The people that have played with [r] for the past year and enjoy it don't want to go back to how it was, I know I don't.
If people don't want to adjust to he playstyle YOU like just deal with it. Go play in a different room.
I voted for the removal.
Although this poll seems to be going in the opposite way as to which you wished...
Dude there is no "other room" because the vast majority is swept beneath their feet on some bullshit tag. Its had enough time here and done enough damage. Also we do create our own rooms, people just feel the need to have those tags because its a crutch and its disgusting. Horrible tags need to be deleted ok.
People not joining your room? Deal with it. Theres enough of you people crying all day on the forums about the tags
Instead of crying get online with the whole bunch, make a room without tags and have fun. Let others have their fun too.
Me and the vast majority which is swept benath their feet on some bullshit tag DON'T want to adjust to the playstyle YOU and your forum posse like.
Deal. With. It.
http://puu.sh/9dycd.png
2/3 voted to remove wont be surprised if its getting 9/10
majority
get them on the forums to vote with you please
More people clearly seem to like the [R] tag than those who don't. If that wasn't the case there wouldn't be so many rooms with it, people would just avoid those rooms and make their own.
I don't see whats so complicated about making your own rooms. Let the people who like [R] be content and play with it, and let those who don't like it make rooms without it. It's honestly not rocket science...
On another note, a lot of us doesn't CW on the basis of how corrupt and egotistical it is. Honestly have to say that 90% if not more (random guess) of ESP reports come from CW players, against other CW players. The last time I did CW the ESP couldn't have been more obvious. We actually got to the point where we hid behind an object and watched as they ran straight towards us with no hesitation what so ever, and no matter what route we took they would all just happen to take that same route.
Then there's the ego with it. I've never seen so many egotistical people theoretically beat on their chest so much in my entire life. You win and they rage at you and call you everything under the sun. You lose and your nothing but 'noob trash'. I remember sitting back and reading all the threads with people crying about this clan hacking, or this clan hacking. It seemed like every major CW clan was crying out for their competition to have points removed.
[R] is not the problem behind no CW matches. The community itself is the problem.
EDIT: This poll isn't very valid either. Most of the players aren't even active on the forum.
Then you would end up having lots of unused rooms. Alright, lets compare this with boys and girls.
Boys = Players
Girls = Rooms
If there would be 50 boys and 5 girls, every girl would have to do 10 boys, right?
If there would be 50 players and 5 rooms, every room would have 10 players.
Now if you increase the amount of girls / rooms because everybody has a different taste and likes to play differently you would get something like this:
If there would be 50 boys and 25 girls, every girl would have to do 2 boys, right?
If there would be 50 players, and 25 rooms, the average on each room would be just 2 players, which is equal to a boring room because there aren't enough people to play with. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying every girl prefers 10 boys over 2, thats just something else.
The players with a lower skill level will prefer to keep [R] tag. I mean, it's an easy way to reduce the gap between good and bad players.
Anyways, after being here for awhile.. I must say that the game was much more enjoyable without these bunch of tags(and there were more players online).
Some tags can stay but [R] has got to go.
All those randoms that play training and infected all day voting yes not to mention that most cwers don't even have a forum account l0l , just remove it already.
It should stay, but it shouldn't be able to be used in rooms other than training.
then again, there are training weapons; however, their delays are different, so players would still be able to choose to practice with their donor weapons
All dese guys prob never played back den wen you actualy had to reload
Well the thing is, remember those good old ijji times? when your shotgun was empty and both of the players just kinda backed out and went for a reload. well that was all fun and games and a little bit about respect. Then there's Fgunz, when you play in a room without [R] its still all pretty good. But then you find out that your shotguns are running low on ammo, so you back out and go for a reload, but then all thes ehungry dogs chase you like insane and keep shooting you with their last bullits. This is basically fighting a disabled person. Now I do understand that a lot of people like this since they're too easy to get a decent kill. But for all the rest who still got that little bit of dignity in their tiny little brains: GG.
Now I like the fact how all these gm's backing each other up and that is kinda logical, BUT the fact that you guys are not even listening to what people have to say and just stomp ur feet like a 5 yo child and wanting to set thing to your own terms. It is just the best solution if people who dont want to play with the [R] tags make a room without it, I mean that is what the tags are for right? you can just put em on the room, OR NOT..
so stop all this wining and just go out there and click create, after this you fill in a title that you wish and get in there :D I dont really think it should be that hard.
have a very good day ladies and gents :)
I have been playing fgunz again the last couple of days. Almost every gameroom has [r] in it these days. It is really annoying because in these rooms people are only spamming their weapons. the whole strategic element of shooting (aiming) and then having to reload is compleatly gone. this makes the game so boring and dephtless. Just the simple fact that the [r] tag is in almost every damn room means that it is being abused. It should be removed or nerved in some kind of way. If this doesnt happen I probably wont be playing for long again.
My vote is yes.
If you don't like it, make a room without [R].
This could be really simple, for example create it so that the tag [r] is limited to 5 to 10 rooms and the player count 16 or 32. Problem solved
how about get rid of vials, gunz clan war is so gay.
shoot someone twice they low, they run and heal 2 secs later comes back with full hp.
i see no skill in this. All its doing is giving people a second chance gunz is a "FAST PACED THIRD PERSON SHOOTING GAME" n0 time for second chances
What you dont understand is that gunz was and is still (in my opinion) not a game about being a rambo and just spray and spam your way through multiple people. Back in the old days it was all about strategic engadgement, meaning that you should know when to back off and when to start attacking. If you play against alot of enemies it would be smart to wait for someone on your team so you could go in together so you can cover each other while reloading. I understand that not having to reload turns it into a more fast pased game but I considered gunz to be fast pased enough, even with reloading.
BUT did you play in a non [R] room yet? I bet you come back and complain that people are lame killing you.. but then again you probably didnt play a non [R] room yet.. look at it both ways dude just make ur non [R] room and have fun the way you like it. I can see there are a lot of people who want it the same way like you.
and on the other side there are a lot of people, might just be the majority of them that like the [R] rooms cuz you dont have the waiting time and coming with that the time to get lamed ;)
your mistake is that you keep talking about how it was, and how it was is deff not how it works on this server ;)
Should've made the poll to show names so we can get all them refuse option voters banned :)
nigss 2 lazy to wait 3 sec to reload daaaang amateurs
these threads are pointless so many players love R theyre not going to take it out just for like the 50 of us that dont lol.
so many people hate r theyre not going to take it out just for like the 50 of us
wake up
no one but people who play infection mode like [r] because they can farm exp and rebirth faster.
and people who say; no r gives mouse cat game
cw no r take 10 min max also, no one lames unless you are brs like you who are used to r and cant even rs properly
You really gonna go there? have nothing better to say then to try and insult me? anyway what you just said doesn't make any sense.
I stand by my arguments because you havn't debunked those at all.
sounds to me that we should rename this game because it isnt gunz anymore. You just want to play a diffrent game then gunz.
I say remove it since its so prevalent, the reason is that Anti Lead which is taken for granted now actually changed the game a lot
and while it made it more straightforward and less frustrating it also made some bad things like guns are now unbalanced compared to melee,
and reactive evasion is less effective,
when you add infinite ammo / reloading to that, it becomes silly.
[NOT OFFICIAL ANSWER] [R] stays. [/NOT OFFICIAL ANSWER]
this thread
http://i.imgur.com/RIGF3xW.jpg
I can understand why it would be annoying to play a game in it. But, why remove it? Just play without it. I think [R] can make a lot of games for me and friends a lot more fun. Stop acting like a cry baby. ; - ;
edit:
and you can't say majority of people hate [r] since everyone who plays the game doesn't even post on the forum.
but if you train with your normal weapons using [R] you wouldn't need training weapons. You could just train with your normal shotguns and get used to the delay it has.
Real gunz died so why not change it? The tags offer something different, something most other servers don't have.
Lose the [R] tag and lose something that make FG stand out from the crowd.
[R] can make boring games fun. The people crying to remove it are just trying to force everyone to play their way. This is not the olden times. It's like watching a bunch of kids walk round screaming and stomping their feet because they aren't getting their way, and this has been going on for a long time now.
Use it if you want to, don't use it if you don't want to. It's not that hard to comprehend.
well it seems that fgunz has been ruined for 53% of the people who play this server. but lets just ignore that for the sake of noobs that dont want to reload anymore. bye bye fgunz.
Shit, I voted YES but I meant NO.
Poll is probably not reliable since your thread title states "Remove [R]" and the poll question is "Keep [R]"? People maybe voted for the wrong option.
Keep - Way too much post and thread for this
keep because people like me cant aim
`-`
kappa
Remove it.
since every room has it.
and all the oldgens who are coming back.
are leaving after all those [R] rooms.
No skill needed anymore=/
Remove!
Yes
wow, I voted yes because of the title..
I want to vote no after reading poll title and post ):
bawww bawwww mines in cw bawww remove pls bawww
baawwww bawwwww vials and pills are lame in cw and require no skill bawww baww remove!! bawww
bawww bawww bawwww i can't find a game without [r] because people who play it suck and can't aim as good as i can cuz i cw bawww bawwww bawww remove bawwww
:o.o
We shouldn't force people to play the way we think the game is supposed to be played.
Keep [R]. If you don't like it, then maybe you shouldn't play in rooms with it. I have no issue with making TDM's without [R], getting them active and playing in them.
The argument about strategy can't even be made, since strategy in GunZ falls into every game. If you're fighting a spammer, potshotter, figure out a way to get them and kill them. Unless you suck, it's not impossible.
I cw here and there, and honestly I think the cw community is really self-centered. You guys are always trying to change the way the game is made in order to satisfy your own selfish needs and not consider what others may think (or just dismiss their opinion by calling them "bad" at the game and what not). The same argument can be had about the people who want to remove Vials and Pills.
Why should people be forced to have the "skill" that YOU guys THINK that GunZ came pre-packaged with? Why can't people just play how they want to play? Isn't this FREESTYLE GunZ??
Remove BR & PH
I would say remove.
Whether it stays or not, it doesn't stop us "pros" from wrecking every lowbie/noobie below us.
Agreed, I was saying this to myself. Why not make an official poll for us to decide?
It's evident that [R] is preventing alot of players from enjoying the game(including myself) and causing many of us to stay away for the game. I'm pretty sure no one would leave if [R] got removed regardless if they said they would.
http://puu.sh/9eW1P.png gud, because theres a reason no where else got [R] and laugh at the fgunz because ppl come to them
Lol love how you took a part of his comment out and used it to get your point across even though Dave also said "that will most likely not happen".
On another note if it does get removed, I will be waiting to see how long it takes you cry babies to make another thread where you will then cry about how you think snipers are still too OP even without [R].
Not all of us require [R] as you seem to think. Some of us just find it more fun.
http://i.imgur.com/kCsrZkJ.jpg
This wasn't even my room. So stop crying about how there is never a room without [R], because I see them all the time.
Aren't you Dutch lol? If so your timezone is only 1 hour ahead of mine...
The point isn't how OP or easy you think snipers are. I had two points. One was that [R] games are not as rare as you make out to be, as I see them all the time and there is normally always a Castle map or map rotation game without [R]. The second point I was trying to make was that once this [R] situation gets settled (what ever the decision may be) you lot will find another thing to bitch and moan about.
You wont be happy until you force everyone to play by 'CW rules'.
g.j fgunz
oldgen players even old staff ( not just me ) say the [r] is retarded and ruins the game.
this isn't gunz anymore, this is a perfect example assuming 'r' is natural.
bring back [dmg3] was commen tag no one cared about opness
reverse ownage opness only questers abused it but comon goblins dont care
Come on, you can't be serious by saying this.
We(most of the community) don't try to find things we don't like to get removed (such as snipers being too op). But, if there's something annoying in-game so you cannot expect people not to opeth threads like that.
OT:
Try to join a random room with the roomtag [R], you will see that almost everyone spams their bullets like there is no tomorrow. Is this what you really want? I'm personally sick of this and I want the game to be like it was before : Playing smart and thinking before shooting bullets because it's important to save up ammo.
Unfortunately, most of the players prefer to keep this roomtag because it's "fun". I'm sorry, but I don't see what's so fun about spamming bullets all the time.
[IA] + [R] + Spray = too op.
If you don't like it make a room without it.
IS IT REALLY THAT HARD, PEOPLE?
I don't see a point for removing it if the option to not play with it is there. If people didn't like it, they wouldn't use it in the first place. To take the option away completely wouldn't be fair. Not even remotely.
If youre planning to keep [R], you should make it so that [R] and [IA] cannot be used in the same room. If someone goes [R], they should be considerate of their ammo while spamming. If [IA] was with [R], it drops the skill level by a large amount. It'll make it fair for most of the people arguing around here imo.
Kids keep saying this dumb shit but can't you read for once? It takes ages before people join a room without it and if they join by accident they leave after saying 'oh no [r]' and then the cyclus of waiting for ages for someone to join starts all over again.. Just a dumb statement fom a even more dumb guy who has no logic
+1^^
Then you're doing it all wrong. I NEVER have a problem making a game without it. Or I just join a duel, or just join an R-Less TDM.
My TDMs get quite active and lasts a long time.
And if you manage to get rooms 1-16, it's a piece of cake.
Off topic: and is there really a need to throw insults at my opinion? '-' this is why we can't have mature debates like this because immature people like you can't handle it.
Have you even gone ingame lol almost ever tdm dm infected ctf etc has r. And it takes 5 seconds to get a game with r populated quickly and like 3 hours for a game without R. Don't get me wrong I dont want R nor do I like it I played gunz for years without it until I came here. However I'm just stating whats going on.
idk NA times doesnt have a huge [r] problem, i just avoid [r] rooms. pretty much every tdm doesnt have [r] '-'
what it does have is retards calling each other ucers and sbers when they arent even average players '__'
Keep it
if u hate it , just make a room without [R] lol ..
remove r from tdms and deathmatches, keep it to games like ctf and infected since they spam a lot there
at least keep it away from tdm's
this [R] tag problem has two only solutions I think.
1. Don't completely remove [R] tag instead, make it usable in some rooms and not in some. (e.g usable in CTF, Infected, Quest, etc)
not usable in e.g DM, CW and TDM etc.
or
2. Make rooms without [r] tags, I've been playing and I still see rooms without [r] tags or without even tags have pretty much players playing in that room.
and I think there's still the essence of reloading even in [r] tags, 'old habits never die' or so.
Honestly, after some observation, I feel like whatever polls have been set up has increasingly been favored towards tailoring players who clanwar. Whether that be lowering sniper damage, taking off donor vials, or removing [R] tags, it feels like the people who clanwar are on this forum more frequently than other players and yet think they speak on behalf of all players. That's not true. This game is more than that. Having majority over a poll option doesn't speak on behalf of all players, it speaks for the majority that are on this forum which is coincidentally mostly the players who actively clanwar. Now don't get me wrong, I understand some players don't like room tags. I've got a solution: Create your own room. Forcing players to play your style is practically the same idea as them forcing [R] tags in every room.
Removing tags never used to be a concern but I've noticed that ever since the implementation of money as a clan war prize instead of playing the game for enjoyment. Now some players might disagree and say I enjoy winning money. But that's the problem. That's all this server has been about.
hey guys. been watching this discussion for a bit and wanted to add my little two cents
i decided to log on and make a room without r and record how long it would take for it to get active (about 3 minutes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmpAxa8Bg-U
since some people are using the lame excuse that making a room without [r] takes forever
cheers
ps: if u log on now the room i made is still there (11:26PM EST)
-----------------------------------------post 1-----------------------------------------
You should check out the thread before this, the one I made.
You are telling certain players' style to "**** off". These room tags add more flexibility with meta playstyles but also discourage others. So then, telling the discouraged atyles to go their own wa only negates player activity, communications, more tdms, dms, pvp rooms, more interactions. The solution is to aid people without discouraging other styles of play. Splitting the community by telling a group of players "don't play with us, make your own room" instead of finding a resolve is childish and ignorant if this thought process continues.
The solution would be to make as many people as possible to actually like the content in the game. This means balancing out sniper gameplay so it is enjoyable to notnonly use, but to play against, would be the goal. Not to constantly split the player base as you constantly keep suggesting. If sniper gameplay discourages othe playstyles immensively, then something should be done, instead of discouraging sniper and specifics all together. Many room tags have positives, but also come with negatves that should not be ignored and we should be aiming to retain the positives without the negatives instead of consistently come up with half assed resolves.
The nades in gunz weren't made with the knowledge of how the meta gameplay would be. More items seen in pvp makes this more intersting, however, if there is a large group of players hating on a specific item, then obviously there beeds to be soke balacing done instead of constantly splitting the player base by "styles of play". We should be aiming to unite everyone's style of play and make it enjoyable to fight against different playstyles. Hasn't anyone heard of balancing? Damn it...
at this rate, no one will be playing with no one. Seeing as how this is still going on, FGunZ staff seem to not be able to handle balacing, so basically: I dont know hownto make this work with this, so if there is anyone's playstyle that conflicts with *this*, then I'm sorry, but you're goin to have to make your own room or just play with a select few. At this rate, this server will be the opposite of diversity, since it's too hard to mix and match different things.
Everything I said above.
Tags make certain player's styles more flexible and makes tameplay more open ended for more input with specific players, but at the same time, they discourage many other styles. There is a double negative. This results in the aided styles playing together and the discouraged atyles playin together, spliting the player base. It makes the player base seem much smaller when your actually playing since there is less people that you're actually able to interact with. With results in less player activity, less donations, and more. If you looked at my thread, I have tried my best to retain the positives without the negatives in regards to all this. There is no need for half asses resolves like this.
So yea, ya dun know.
-----------------------------------------post 2-----------------------------------------
There solution is right in front of everyone, there is no need for speculation on what to do.
https://freestylersworld.com/showthre...lities-Freedom
With GunZ the Duel, if you do not focus on making the current gameplay better for everyone and try to improve it by just literally tryin to constantly improve things, "How can i make this better", instead of just coming up with new items constantly, new tags, new game modes, if people aren't thinking like that, about gameplay and not just whqt cool new idea can be come up with for FGunZ, then there will always be conflicts. Why wait fornpeople to complain to just make something better? There would be less complains that revolve around imbalances if staff put more focus on going theough everything in the game and making sure there are minimal conflicts around them.
-----------------------------------------post 3-----------------------------------------
Staff need to know what they want their version of fgunz to be like and if people wanna play it, tthey will or wont. Maiet removed hellsclimb, every dstyler still played. Maiet wanted to remove the glitch and if we want to quit because of that we will but if devs wanted a certain thig removed for how they view the game, then do it. And if people want to play the game, then do it. FGunZ is like a game where the players have way too much say its stupid at tikes but staff seem to be developing this server for people. But not a server that they see fit and if ppl wanna play then aure.
http://puu.sh/9gkMt.jpg http://puu.sh/9gkNr.jpg http://puu.sh/9gkOg.jpg http://puu.sh/9gkPq.jpg
7 PM Netherlands time, sorry that I'm not on earlier because I have college to be at.
Please let there be an official poll, not just for staff members who don't even play gunz them selves.
I play gunz, but only 'sometimes' cws here because I like the server that it's balanced but the [R] just pushed me away for letting me stay online.
Nice, respect for taking to your time to prove those ****ing idiots 'make tdm witouth r'.
I don't get why this isn't under consideration lol
We need R for snipers.... and also you can make room without [r] and newgens need [r] like me.
Solving a conflict's from the roots is the only true way.
Everyone getting caught up in the how and I bet no one knows what we really are aiming for.
Lets see if your resolve can even hold up.
If remove r from tdms and deathmatches, and keep it it in games [like] ctf and infected
then [?]
and if [?]
then goal
^ obviously there are way too many blanks.
Seems like most of the suggestions here are just people that want to be involved somehow in all this, regardless of having true feelings towards the argument of this thread.
Remove any reply that suggests people to create their own room and every reply that suggests to only remove room mods.
Both have solid arguments against them that have been said here. At least for spam sake and allegibility, do not post these suggestions, they have been said since the start.
Many arguments have been proven wrong by this unofficial poll. I would like to see the devs react on this, these are hard facts.
Then I suggest your comments get removed too from MY thread.
Make new room suggestion < has been proven wrong with 10 minute video
Remove tags with future benefits < has potentional since there is basic logic behind it
Regardless people spamming it 50x, facts stay facts
And people be like ; add delay to sniper scope
.. Just remove [R] and it's 9000x less overpowered.
Just a point here, when looking for rooms I preferr [R] rooms to join just because it's easier to play. But i'm supporting to remove it because I understand their side of the argument and I think it makes more sense.
And to be honest even though I look for [R] rooms most of the time, I don't give two shits if it gets removed.
I support it.
change my vote to NO please, I just read the thread name before I saw the sneaky trap in the user's post.
R is only awesome in training rooms otherwise sucks ****
No we don't. When I started the thread to revamp snipers, I in no way suggested anything about any tags. I've played with those for many years, on this/other servers and never had any issues without R. In fact ir irks me more than anything to have the R tag. That's your own skills that are in question here, not the weapon nor the tag. With 6/5 shots, you have enough to kill 2-3 players easily.
Don't go generalising people needing something.
i vote remove it :o.o
I just dont get why noone look at all freestyle gunz with out r.
Why do u think its 1st in all gunzes vote pages ?
Alot of players I know from other servers always wanted that r in the server thay play but didnt have it.
So why not leave it and go make rooms with out r if you so hate it ?
There is players joined only cause of that r and im one of them.
as far as im concerned, I believe 2012 is before they did those changes, not quite sure. And otherwise anyways gratz, you're one out of a hundred. I joined first because there was only 5-10 players on this server, and everybody was nice. It changed, now there's hundreds, with a lot of assH* and BR. But that's what happens with time.
as far as im concerned, I believe 2012 is before they did those changes, not quite sure. And otherwise anyways gratz, you're one out of a hundred. I joined first because there was only 5-10 players on this server, and everybody was nice. It changed, now there's hundreds, with a lot of assH* and BR. But that's what happens with time.
Actually they are awesome, you guys are just well over 99% pop of the server. Considering there was 20 players not even on this server before.... you don't have a clue of what you're talking about.
I am positive that's not true, because atleast 5 people in this thread said that they voted wrong, and 3 on skype, and some one even PM'd me not to mention the people who aren't aware of it.
I'm waiting for dave to remove the thread and let me remake it with non-misleading poll (happend by accident).
Are you saying this mistake only happened with people on the ''remove it'' side?
The people that want to keep [R] keep getting shit shoved to their heads that we're dumb, stupid, can't read, brs, newgens, morons.
But for some reason people that don't want to keep [R] fail to understand that in order to vote on something you have to read it first?
Bullshit.
If it happened on your side it happened on ours too.