What would it take to be able to update GunZ graphically?

I'm talking about brand new spanking HD character/equipment textures and maybe things like anti-aliasing, bloom, ambient occlusion, depth of field, advanced/modern shadows, anisotropic filtering, post processing, etc...
I know about ENB but there has to be something beyond ENB.

I hope this question isn't ridiculous because I haven't seen this discussed thoroughly besides ENB, it has me thinking it's impossible without doing source code work.
This question arose when I finished modding skyrim with 253 mods, most of the mods were visual overhauls (textures, LOD stuff, etc..) which made the game look entirely different from the vanilla version, it made the game seem like it was recently just released. If something like this could be done with GunZ even on a miniscule scale that doesn't involve just ENB It would be a dream come true.

GunZ already has antialiasing, can be modded to support better stencil buffering (32bit stencil buffer). HD character/equipment, post-processing, advanced shadows, lighting, etc. All require extensive reworking of the engine. GunZ runs so nicely on old hardware b/c of its lack of graphical features. its dynamic lighting system is very basic, and for most of the lighting it uses prebaking instead of realtime (go to mansion and walk around,you'll see in some areas the lights cast on your character, this is the dynamic lighting system). It also doesn't use actual shadows for characters, it's just a tga with some math involved (source-side).You'd be better off coding your own engine and replacing RS2 with it (lambda is doing this). The difference between skyrim & gunz, gunz is ancient, skyrim already had the support for the mods to build upon, gunz doesn't. anisotropic filtering,I'm not entirely sure how it works on a coding level, so no idea if it's hard or not. Maybe secrets can come in here and shed some light on AF? :p

In short, it requires far more than what your average gunz coder is capable of. I only know a couple gunz coders that could pull it off.

pfft hold my beer ,i got dis.

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Originally Posted by Phanta

pfft hold my beer ,i got dis.

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Too soon

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Originally Posted by jetman82

GunZ already has antialiasing, can be modded to support better stencil buffering (32bit stencil buffer). HD character/equipment, post-processing, advanced shadows, lighting, etc. All require extensive reworking of the engine. GunZ runs so nicely on old hardware b/c of its lack of graphical features. its dynamic lighting system is very basic, and for most of the lighting it uses prebaking instead of realtime (go to mansion and walk around,you'll see in some areas the lights cast on your character, this is the dynamic lighting system). It also doesn't use actual shadows for characters, it's just a tga with some math involved (source-side).You'd be better off coding your own engine and replacing RS2 with it (lambda is doing this). The difference between skyrim & gunz, gunz is ancient, skyrim already had the support for the mods to build upon, gunz doesn't. anisotropic filtering,I'm not entirely sure how it works on a coding level, so no idea if it's hard or not. Maybe secrets can come in here and shed some light on AF? :p

In short, it requires far more than what your average gunz coder is capable of. I only know a couple gunz coders that could pull it off.

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I had anti-aliasing disabled driver wise :(.
I did not know who or what lambda was so I looked him up and found his blog, it seems he isn't doing development on GunZ anymore.

So in conclusion there is probably no hope, it would have been done by now I guess.

That would require major graphic overhaul. I don't think that an "ordinary" coder can pull it off. GunZ would need a whole map, item and charactee retexture. Character polygon resizing and dynamic shadows. It is A LOT to do.

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Originally Posted by Revvy

I had anti-aliasing disabled driver wise :(.
I did not know who or what lambda was so I looked him up and found his blog, it seems he isn't doing development on GunZ anymore.

So in conclusion there is probably no hope, it would have been done by now I guess.

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He's still doing development on gunz, he just isn't showing any of the work. I've seen some impressive things from him, bullet physics engine, advanced lighting, etc.

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Originally Posted by Revvy

I'm talking about brand new spanking HD character/equipment textures and maybe things like anti-aliasing, bloom, ambient occlusion, depth of field, advanced/modern shadows, anisotropic filtering, post processing, etc...
I know about ENB but there has to be something beyond ENB.

I hope this question isn't ridiculous because I haven't seen this discussed thoroughly besides ENB, it has me thinking it's impossible without doing source code work.
This question arose when I finished modding skyrim with 253 mods, most of the mods were visual overhauls (textures, LOD stuff, etc..) which made the game look entirely different from the vanilla version, it made the game seem like it was recently just released. If something like this could be done with GunZ even on a miniscule scale that doesn't involve just ENB It would be a dream come true.

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A stronger engine :o.o

Simplicity is best.

what happend to Your gunz grapics is it low??

Basically jetman82 gave the answer to your question, it would take a lot of time to do this.
It's not something we will ever do for FGunZ.

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Originally Posted by Dave

Basically jetman82 gave the answer to your question, it would take a lot of time to do this.
It's not something we will ever do for FGunZ.

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I don't think anyone would do it. Half the Gunz player base has low end machines.

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Originally Posted by Papito

I don't think anyone would do it. Half the Gunz player base has low end machines.

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Exactly.
GunZ is a game which does not require a lot of GPU power and a bunch of people play GunZ because they can play it on their low-end PC's with their on-board GPU's.

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Originally Posted by Dave

Exactly.
GunZ is a game which does not require a lot of GPU power and a bunch of people play GunZ because they can play it on their low-end PC's with their on-board GPU's.

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No, you're wrong man if they save every $ they waste on games , they can buy better PC's :o.o

Even if the majority of players ran on midrange pc's, it's simply not worth the required effort. The best you're going to get is if someone takes Grandao's RS3 support and fixes the issue with amd gpu's (something about shaders I think, can't remember). Even then though, it's not going to increase character quality, only map quality. but, in doing this, you run into a couple possible issues.

Issue #1:
Players are segregated b/c of hardware, some people wouldn't be able to run the game with the increased graphical fidelity. They'd be stuck running old maps, unable to play with the people running the new maps.
Issue #2:
You could have a HQ/SQ client, but this would require all maps to be remade with RS3 support, would require 2 sources, and would also require someone be knowledgeable enough to modify Grandao's code to support AMD gpu's correctly (guys with intel igp's probably be S.O.L).While technically possible, it's not worth the effort necessary. A big thing that would help GunZ is AF, and I'm sure Secrets can code the 32-bit stencil buffer support (this would also help). I feel a lot of times people don't really understand the effort that's required to modify gunz graphics. Things like antialiasing were fairly easy, the codes already there. Everything else however, is a huge undertaking. No one, save Lambda, is willing to create their own engine and replace RS2 with it.

gunz 2

That's actually what Grandao's mod is good for, you can take the maps from GunZ 2 and play them on GunZ. But, the shaders (i think it's the shaders), don't work correctly for AMD cards, so no one ever built upon what he released. I'd love to, but I'm just not a good enough coder to do it.

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Originally Posted by jetman82

That's actually what Grandao's mod is good for, you can take the maps from GunZ 2 and play them on GunZ. But, the shaders (i think it's the shaders), don't work correctly for AMD cards, so no one ever built upon what he released. I'd love to, but I'm just not a good enough coder to do it.

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Jacob, Lambda, Peter, Past :o.o

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Originally Posted by Papito

Jacob, Lambda, Peter, Past :o.o

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Jacob & Peter I've never spoken to, but I'm pretty sure Lambda & Secrets could build on it. You'd have to ask them, shader work is extremely complicated.

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Originally Posted by jetman82

Even if the majority of players ran on midrange pc's, it's simply not worth the required effort. The best you're going to get is if someone takes Grandao's RS3 support and fixes the issue with amd gpu's (something about shaders I think, can't remember). Even then though, it's not going to increase character quality, only map quality. but, in doing this, you run into a couple possible issues.

Issue #1:
Players are segregated b/c of hardware, some people wouldn't be able to run the game with the increased graphical fidelity. They'd be stuck running old maps, unable to play with the people running the new maps.
Issue #2:
You could have a HQ/SQ client, but this would require all maps to be remade with RS3 support, would require 2 sources, and would also require someone be knowledgeable enough to modify Grandao's code to support AMD gpu's correctly (guys with intel igp's probably be S.O.L).While technically possible, it's not worth the effort necessary. A big thing that would help GunZ is AF, and I'm sure Secrets can code the 32-bit stencil buffer support (this would also help). I feel a lot of times people don't really understand the effort that's required to modify gunz graphics. Things like antialiasing were fairly easy, the codes already there. Everything else however, is a huge undertaking. No one, save Lambda, is willing to create their own engine and replace RS2 with it.

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Anisotropic filtering is trivial and, off the top of my head, the code would literally be like 5 lines:

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        D3DCAPS9 Caps;
        g_pDevice->GetDeviceCaps(&Caps);
        g_pDevice->SetSamplerState(0, D3DSAMP_MAGFILTER, D3DTEXF_ANISOTROPIC);
        g_pDevice->SetSamplerState(0, D3DSAMP_MINFILTER, D3DTEXF_ANISOTROPIC);
        g_pDevice->SetSamplerState(0, D3DSAMP_MAXANISOTROPY, Caps.MaxAnisotropy);

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Not sure whatever you're thinking about, but it barely does anything at all.

Gunz doesn't even use the typical 8-bit stencil buffers by default; I have no clue why you would want 32-bit ones.

Things like bloom, ambient occlusion and other post-processing aren't difficult to do but enbseries does those already. New engine with new textures would be the main thing that'd make it look better, but it's a lot of work with a lot of issues, and I'd personally rather see the fgunz staff working on pathetically simple things like fixing the ****ing [v] tag instead of reworking the entire game anyway, but maybe that's just me.

That picture shows it does quite a bit lol, I don't think gunz even uses trilinear filtering, I think it uses bilinear, so moving to anisotropic filtering would clear up the distant muddy textures. It a nice little patch that costs almost no performance.