Mostly regarding the weapons, what do you think the stats of weapons should be for a perfectly balanced server?
Format to help you out:
Weapon: E.g. Shotgun
Low level stats:
Mid level stats:
High level stats:
Donation stats:
Donation+ stats:
Printable View
Mostly regarding the weapons, what do you think the stats of weapons should be for a perfectly balanced server?
Format to help you out:
Weapon: E.g. Shotgun
Low level stats:
Mid level stats:
High level stats:
Donation stats:
Donation+ stats:
low level sg ; 1100 delay and 7 dmg, mid level 7 dmg 1000 delay, high level 8 dmg 1100 delay, donation; 8 dmg 1000 delay, donation+ 9 dmg 1100 delay
Weapon:Shotgun
Delay:900-950 ( 850 delay like it is now makes it possible to spam shots non stop) this is the best delay you can get i mean < so this max for donor idk how to balance rest
Health regarding << : 139/119 is thre max you can get and still you can get 2 shotted which seems pretty dumb u are able to 2 shot ppl with shotgun
OFC shotguns are meant to be killer in close range but the way other weapons are balanced shotguns can get from long range into close range in no time cuz the other weapons are not competent enough to stop shotgun users
making 5 ammo per clip and not 6
EDIT:
i forgot to mention that shotguns now that are 850 delay ( donor ofc ) promote spamming and walking ( LONG FKEN RANGE )
which is not how shotguns should be use thats why k style was made while you kstyle you can shoot 1-2 max every move but while you perform 1 move the walker already did 3-4 shots so this is to promote more fast paced games and not walking games
Weapon: Shotgun
Low level stats: 6 dmg, 1000 delay 5x30
Mid level stats: 7 dmg, 1000 delay 5x30
High level stats: 8 dmg, 1000 delay 5x30
Donation stats: 9 dmg, 1000 delay 5x30
Donation+ stats: 9 dmg, 1000 delay 5x30
i don't support lower delay than 1000 on shotguns but that's mainly because i support the way ijji balanced their weapons. also, shotguns shouldn't have 6 clips in my opinion
I'm saying almost the same but Donation+ Should be 950 delay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boubble
Ay delay for donation + should remain the same (6x30 ammo)
The Limitbreaker would be donation+ in this case, people wont be happy if it has the exact same stats as the regular donation shotguns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boubble
oh yeah of course i see. there definitely have to be a unique weaponQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave
Shotgunz.
Low level: 6 dmg, 1000 delay / 5 clip.
Mid level stats: 7 dmg, 1000 delay / 5 clip.
High level stats: 8 dmg, 1000 delay / 5 clip
Donation stats: 9 dmg, 950 delay / 5 clip
Limit Breaker: 10 dmg, 1000 delay / 6 clip
p.s bring back the old event shotgun!!! the white one
Weapon: Shotgun
Low level stats: 6 dmg, 1000 delay 5x30
Mid level stats: 7 dmg, 1000 delay 5x30
High level stats: 8 dmg, 975 or 950 delay 5x30
Donation stats: 9 dmg, 900 or 850 delay 6x30
Donation+ stats: 10 dmg, 850 delay 6x30
Best.
So make the normal donation shotguns 8 damage, and the limitbreaker 9, if that's possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
Weapon: sword
Low level stats: 310 delay, 19 dmg
Mid level stats: 310 delay, 22 dmg
High level stats: 310 delay, 23 dmg
Donation stats: 300 delay, 24 dmg
Donation+ stats: doesn't exist but if it will at some point; 26 dmg, 290 delay
increase the stats of donation shotguns to 900 delay 9dmg
any shotgun that has a lower amount of delay than 900 would be too stupid for this game
dmg is fine, there is no need to change anything with it, the only problem is the delay.
Shotgun.
Low level stats: Damage: 7 Delay: 1200 Controllability: 60 DPS:84.00 Magazine:5 Max bullet: 25 Reload time: 5 Required level: 1~40
Mid level stats: Damage: 8 Delay: 1100 Controllability: 80 DPS:96.00 Magazine:5 Max bullet: 25 Reload time: 5 Required level: 40~70
High level stats: Damage: 9 Delay: 1000 Controllability: 70 DPS:110.00 Magazine:5 Max bullet: 25 Reload time: 5 Required level: 70~99
Donation stats: Damage: 9 Delay: 1000 Controllability: 90 DPS:108.00 Magazine:6 Max bullet: 30 Reload time: 5 Required level: 40+
Donation+ stats:Damage:10 Delay: 950 Controllability: 100 DPS:120.00 Magazine:6 Max bullet: 30 Reload time: 5 Required level: 65+
Alsomake donor items at level 40+(varies for each donation item) so we don't see random level 1 characters with donations and that would also affect the rookie channel level 1-50, also make it that if 1 character on the account has lvl 50+ all the other characters can't join the level 1-50 channel.
and change the colors of the shotguns to rainbowsQuote:
Originally Posted by Hulk
if limitbreaker stays 10 damage there is nothing to balance to just stick with op Gunz.
Make limitbreaker the avenger of fgunz 8) 2 clip 10 dmg np.
nothing below 1000 delay.
When 850 delay is matched up with [R][IA], the game just ends up being a shit show.
just keep it how it is maybe make donation+ 900 all these changes are too much
Aha this is my time to shine!!
Right now the limit breaker needs a nerf, its probably the most unbalanced item on freestyle.
Consider this: there are three main properties to consider with shotguns when balancing them, 1. Damage 2. Delay 3. Clip. This means you can ideally play with differing values for each of these to balance the higher tier weapons. A shotgun might have 9 damage but then have 6 clip and 850 delay making it very good. Another weapon might have really high damage like 11, but then have like only 2 clip and 1000 delay to make up for its ridiculous damage.
Now consider this, not only does Limit Breaker have 10 damage, making it do more damage then every other shotgun but it ALSO has an outragously good 6 clip and 850 delay. It sits head and shoulders above evey other weapon in the game.
Now this makes a bit of sense considering the idea of limit breaker is to be a little OP considering how hard its supposed to be to get, but the problem is there are waayyyyy to many people who have them now. So they create a rampant problem on this server.
My suggestion is if you want to keep Limit Breaker at 10 dmg (which I think is fine) then at least touch the clip size (maybe like 5) or the delay (maybe like 1000 so people cant reload shot spam with it) so its not so much better then everything else. With those stat changes it will still be the best shotgun in the game but it wont be so incredibly broken.
i personally find that changing the clip for a weapon is nearly useless because every room has [ia][r] nowadays
Shotgun
Low level stats: 6 Dmg 5x5 Clip 900 Delay ~ 7 Dmg 5x5 Clip 1000 Delay Levels: 1~ 20
Mid level stats : 7 dmg 5x5 Clip 900 Delay ~ 8 dmg 5x5 clip 1000 delay Levels: 30~ 50
High level stats: 8 dmg 5x5 Clip 900 Delay ~ 9 dmg 5x5 clip 1000 delay 60 ~ 99
Double Shotguns will have 1 damage more and 1200+ delay, with 5 clips
Donator: 9 dmg 5x5 clip 950 delay (the red one) / 9 dmg 5x6 clip 900 delay (Genesis revenge, duelisto, etc)
Limitbreaker: 10 dmg 6x6 clip 1050 delay
Honestly feel as though the game is fairly balanced. The increase hp/ap of armor compared to ijji is more suited for anti lead. Only thing that I do not like are the shotgun delays, they should definitely be switched to 1000k delay in order to prevent spamming rs less viable as well as make kstyle moves more viable as well as making dstyle a more viable option to use again.
I think the server is pretty balanced, tbh. But...
Weapon: Shotgun
Low level stats: 9 dmg, 1200 delay 5x25
Mid level stats: 9 dmg, 1100 delay 5x25
High level stats: 9 dmg, 1000 delay 5x25
Donation stats: 9 dmg, 900 delay 5x25 and one 9 dmg 900 delay 6x30 like Pioneer (or 850 delay, whatever tho)
Donation+ stats: 10 dmg, 900 delay 4x20
pretty balanced imo
Weapon:Shotgun
Low level stats: 8 dmg , 1100 delay 5x25
Mid level stats: 9 dmg , 1200 delay 5x25
High level stats: 9 dmg , 1200 delay 5x25
Donation stats: 9 dmg , 950 delay 6x30 (because it's donator)
Donation+ stats: 10 dmg , 1050 delay 6x30 (Can be 1000 or 5x25) <- This one can go either way
Weapon: Shotgun
Low level stats: Delay:1200 Damage: 7 Clip: 6
Mid level stats: Delay:1150 Damage: 8 Clip: 5
High level stats: Delay:1100 Damage: 9 Clip: 5
Donation stats: Delay 1000 Damage: 9 Clip: 5
Donation+ stats: Delay 1000 Damage 10 Clip 5
This is what i would suggest
1.) High level non donors wouldn't be under powered, donors would have a slightly lower delay than high levels.
2.) Those who are donor+ should get more damage but keep delay and clip size the same.
3.) The delay shouldn't ever be under 1000 in my opinion because it's spammable.
4.) For low levels,to compensate for damage,should get another clip (e.g. 6 not 5) because they are already significantly under powered. So in rooms without [R] (reload automatically room tag) they have an advantage to those close to their own levels.
Am I the only one who thinks that SGs are Fine the way they are?
Yo, people paid for these things to get the stats that were promised what was promised.
Most of these guys probably spent more than 500 coins just to get that lb for the exclusive firepower. Now y'all are thinking 'bout nerfing it?
Shaking my head in disgust.
Just sayin.
Meh, what do I care? It's a dead game anyway lol.
Imo removing the infinite ammo option for all gametypes except for training/team training rooms would be the most helpfull when balancing is concerned.
I believe Dave said the removal of roomtags wouldn't happen due to it being too much hassle, although this would be a big help in terms of balancing, sadly the Gunz players at FG have grew into placing tags in every gameroom to the point where if a room doesn't consist of such tag they'll leave to find a room that does.Quote:
Originally Posted by S1lent
lvl 1~44 8 dmg delay 1000
lvl 45~99 9 dmg delay 1000
Donors(Start donors from lvl 45 instead of lvl 1. WHY?- Because when new people join gunz, donors with lvl 1 will be really op and hard for them to lvl)
Donor stats- 9dmg 950 delay ( Less then 950 delay people will be spamming.)
OR
Donor stats - 10 dmg 1000 delay.
Shotgun:
Low level: 7 Damage / 1050 Delay
Mid level: 7 Damage / 1000 Delay
High level: 8 Damage / 1000 Delay
Donation stats: 9 Damage / 950 Delay
Donation+ stats: 10 Damage / 900 Delay ( Keep it as it is )
1000000 delay? damn boyQuote:
Originally Posted by Akimbo
But ye the delay is too low, make 950 minimum delay for donates 9dmg 6bullets and make lb 950 delay with 9.5 dmg 6bullets if thats possible lel or 1000delay 5bullets 10dmg, it will still be op then probably but then again its a special waepen so ye idk
brother is like you gets an opening for Game Master have experience
I would be so happy if they removed at least the [R] tag.
Weapon: E.g. Shotgun
Low level stats: 6 damage sgs
Mid level stats: 7 damage sgs
High level stats: 8 damage sgs
Donation stats: 9 damage 5/30 clip 900 delay
Donation+ stats: 9 damage 6/36 clip 900 delay
u guys know that its not only about sgs right?
bring back old massive
disable/enable visual and sound effects for the first blood and what not
remove R/IA from TDM's
bring back the old igunz rev stats (if needed ill get them myself)
and for the sgs, pretty much everyone spoke for me
get rid of sg's, theyre too op
lets promote EU style, revs and rifles
revolutionize the game
I think limitbreaker doesnt need to be nerfd because it is the unique item here in fg lol ppls wasted their money for coins just to get this.
Most of the ppl playing here are all donors and rich tho so no need to change for it.
The game is dying anyway from 400ppl to 100-200 ppl only now playing lol dafuq
I know they are accustomed to it and some wouldnt like that change. I just believe infinite ammo is the most detrimental to balancing, since its hard to balance a weapon for say clan wars where there is never infinite ammo and then normal rooms where there can be infinite ammo. So because of that fact therein lies the problem. R would be ok without ia because if you choose to burn through your ammo well then you have consequences to that but you are still allowed to choose if you want to play bursty or not. Even I have become accustomed to ia. But I still think its the right thing to do for balancing, maybe not for the server though. Those are 2 differrent things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious
In addition to my post, To get the server more balanced I would suggest to remove all the tags.
It's really dumb.
Room tags are irrelevant to me. As long as you don't balance anything around room tags and solely balance around cw then who cares? I have a bigger problem with AnD games existing than with room tags. [r] is a great tag for berserker/dm/practicing certain things, and it doesn't make tdm unplayable. I don't get people complaining about [ia], that tag is actually irrelevant unless you're playing a 4v4 [lead] cw against 300 pings which you can't even do on fg. I would like to see a [cw] room tag that enforces cw rules (aka sniper ban, which would be an excellent room tag). The cw room tag could also disable all other room tags except [lead].
For shotguns I don't care whether delay is low or high or clip size is 5million as long as everyone is playing on an even playing field. I'm fine with that even playing field being the donation sgs. I do slightly prefer 5 shot sgs with the option of one 6 shot (donation+, limitbreaker, with otherwise identical stats to donor). Managing ammo and pressuring during reload is a skill.
I like the [v] stats more than the donor stats. Maybe I'm a minority on that one. It's not a big deal though. Hp/ap values only matter if they're ridiculously low or high relative to sg damage, and fg is well within a good range.
If you're talking about balancing other weapons then the sniper is completely broken, but you guys know that because it's disabled in cw. Revs are really weak here too. But maybe that's a good thing.
I own all the donor stuff, even lb, and wouldn't care about nerfs. I think a lot of people would though. The problem with the current sg balance is the donation+, limitbreaker, has nowhere to go for a little extra edge and is just busted with 10 damage. FG has good balance overall and changing the lb to a 10x5 and calling it a day is probably good enough. 9x6 would do more damage without reloading, lb would do more relevant upfront damage, and lb already has slightly higher delay.
MELEES
-Katanas
How about an actual Rusty Sword? 15 dmg or at least keep level 1 at 359 delay. There's a reason glads didn't play in pservers with scrub delays, and for a time people played DG for the correct damage/delay that it's supposed to be. Remove or change the look of the skinned weapons that look exactly the same, but have different stats. Either keep Rusty or Lightweight, not both. Also applies to Iron and Military. Editing textures in this game is so easy I could cry, it can be something so minor as giving lightweight swords a blue handle and making Military sword look like Steel sword.
Swords should never go over 25 dmg at highest level. 28 damage for donor swords is absurd and should be toned back to 26-27 maximum. Swords should never be under 320 delay. The insta sword is worthless for training instas and only serves as a purpose to harass and troll other players. A longer reach will never help you train once you switch to normal swords, get rid of it.
-Kodachis
Kodachis should be shorter length than Katanas as they were originally, as of now they are just easy to spam low delay Katanas. With shorter reach of a Kodachi you will actually get different playstyles and tactics. If no change to range, Kodachis should be lower damage than Katanas to balance the DPS.
-Large Swords
Remove x2 Lswords. They were never meant to be large-kodachis and Lswordx2 spam long range high damage voidstep. I don't think I've ever seen anyone use a normal Lsword x1 so the x2s should be cut out or drastically redone to promote more variety. The balance on Lswords is very bad, and all x2s have more damage than x1s thus making Lsword x1s totally pointless to have in the xml. Lsword x1 should have more damage than Lsword x2 to balance the delay not the other way around.
-Daggers
Daggers have the biggest risk, so they should have the biggest buff compared to other weapons. Shortest range, high damage and low delay. Remove speed daggers, nothing but a buggy weapon. Speed daggers encourage use of macros, and its very common.
-Spears
Which is what you call "Long Daggers" in FG. They should get longer delays to balance the longer reach.
-Remove. All. Donor. Elements.
The difference between max level elements and donor elements are just stupid. Donor elements are probably THE lamest thing on this server, tons of rooms have [ni] because of it. Market elements are not that bad in itself but donor elements are pure cancer. Donor elements are the most un-skillful and un-fun thing in this server, it's just farming exp off a lucky hit as the opponent cant do anything about it once they are hit.
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With all of the differences in melees, you should expose the "range" or length stat in the item shop.
GUNS
-Revolvers
Similarly to melees, expose "control" in gun stats besides shotguns and rockets for an idea on how much accuracy a gun has. Revs in this server feel unreliable and trashy because they all feel like Phantoms, which was the LEAST accurate revolvers in GunZ. Why not bring higher accuracy to x1 weapons so players have to be smart if they want to sacrifice damage for accuracy on x2 weapons? Revs x1 can have more ammunition to balance the lower damage.
-Shotguns
Why is there no Avengers but instead there is x2 shotguns? Bring back Avengers and replace x2 shotguns. You can balance them roughly the same as x2 shotguns, higher weight but higher damage and lower clip. Avengers brings it's own style of gameplay of extremely hard hitting, making every shot count. x2 shotguns bring nothing.
im here for the melee. it seems this person was quite angry typing out what he wrote. (person below me)
i'd like to say i agree almost completely with the melee, except for that his opinions need to be softened up.
regarding his balancing about the swords and the skins, good stuff.
balance damage and delays, fine with me. although no delays below 320, meh.
his points made on the ''abuse'' are good ones in my opinion. for example someone with kods that uses that one specific style
i call it kodachi abuse for shits n giggles, xd.
i dont mind fighting anything, some things can use a proper soft balancing though.
and what he said about the big two swords and one big swords kodachi and normal kodachi stuff, like the range. mhm.. rethinking it in terms he made is a good thing.
give GunZ more feel and variety.
again his opinions like REMOVE and NO DELAYS BELOW seem very extreme to me, although sometimes such opinions are needed. u can use such as a foundation for softer balancing
Weapon: Shotgun
Low level stats: Damage 7 / Delay 1100 / Clips 5
Mid level stats: Damage 8 / Delay 1000 / Clips 5
High level stats: Damage 9 / Delay 1000 / Clips 5
Donation stats: Damage 9 / Delay 1000 / Clips 5
Donation+ stats: Damage 9 / Delay 950 / Clips 6
Thanks for the feedback so far. We're going to use the information provided here for our next client version weapon balancement.
The more feedback, the better.
completely remove the double largeswords/nerf them. they have much more damage than the x1 largeswords and kodachi's and the inability to block is not a disadvantage since everyone who uses em are 200 pingers
bring back pills and vials please
buff limitbreaker to 12 dmg also make donor acceleration go faster
or even better make a vial that gives health and ap over time AND makes u go fast....
Maybe use the old stats from ijji?
Donation stats: 10 dmg 900 delay
Donation+ stats: 11 dmg 950 delay
the more you pay = better weapons
max being 200$ shotgun with 13 dmg and 6 clip 1000 delay
If it's feedback you want I have more suggestions for FGs balance.
On my small rant for re-skinning weapons being ultra easy, if someone can get me the texture files for the offending swords I can do this myself, I've edited textures for a different server before.
-I said no Katanas under 320 because it starts bleeding into Kodachis and becomes pointless as a separate weapon class, you want them to stand apart. Really Katanas never went under 329 so even 320 is pushing it. The fastest Katana in ijji was the Wooden Sword at 329 delay which did only 10 for damage.
-Kodachis should start at 290 as they did originally not 280, just like Katanas should start at 359.
GUNS CONTINUED
-Something to add onto the balancing no one seems to ever touch upon is GunZ has a HP/AP ratio that can be tweaked with more than just damage and delay. Daggers can go through more AP than Katanas or Kodachis. Consider changing the ratio of revolvers to soak more AP instead of just making them inaccurate, one of the biggest strengths of revs is the armor piercing but I would rather have my shots connect and be softened than be unreliable.
-Rifles x2, Pistols x2, and everything x2 always shares the same problem with poor balancing I discussed in the Lswordsx2 . If you simply make the x2 weapon more powerful than x1 weapons will almost never be used. Instead realize this doesn't work out and you must think of them as a different class of weapon instead. Pistols x2 need an accuracy buff for tighter precision shots. There is no reason why shooting across ledges in Mansion should be off-target. Both the single shots and spread need better accuracy, Pistols should not be a spray and pray weapon... they are designed for aim. (I'm not expecting LX pixel perfect precision but they definitely need an improvement)
-Pistols x1 should, if possible get re-tooled into a new weapon that fires in multiple shots when you click once. Basically Glocks that burst fire not spray. This would mean you need to code how the gun fires in 3 for each click. Or you could try simply making the clips multiples of 3 with low delay to simulate a Glock, since x1 weapons reload much faster than x2 it can be it's own form of balancing. Consider it an in-between class of smg and dualpistols
-The tags [ia] [r] should probably be thrown out. Balance should be done with ammo clips and reloading in mind, when you have infinite ammo with fast auto reload then youre wasting your time trying to balance anything. FG gets its reputation of being a spam server, not a skill one and it's low delays, high ammo (or inf) that are largely at fault. Training rooms should automatically be coded to be [ia] and [r] [ex] without the needed use of tags. Infact I'd prefer it if training modes had the option or defaulted to everyone doing 0 dmg. This way you can clean up both the xml training items and the over use of room tags.
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For both guns and melee I there's an excessive amount of them. For every 5 levels you get a new one and while that might be very helpful in an official xp based system where you had to grind a long time to reach that next hurdle... FG is really easy to level in so you blow past a lot of it or barely spend time with the weapon.
Quality over Quantity, there's a lot of oddball weapons mixed in the xml for every weapon class. You can be more creative on how the items are spread out thinking in terms of weapon classes, not just duplicates. When you have a dual version of the same x1 weapon for literally every x2 then it's not very interesting or special. When you have unique weapons for unique classes it feels like there is more variety. There's weapons that look like revolvers yet are pistols and other strange stuff, so the xml looks haphazardly put together.
Example1: Lswordsx2 take a Katana that looks very long like InstaTrainingSword or Katana Twin and make it an Lswordx2 instead.
Example2: Take some of the Pistol models and make them pistolx1 only, for the glock class.
Example3: Dont force Kodachi models into Katanas, it just looks awkward and dumb when they hold the weapon sideways.
(Im looking at you Golden Dragon Blade)
Especially, for those who know how to reloadshot, dmg isn't really important. DELAY IS! So, I suggest this. :)
Weapon: Shotgun
Low level stats: 7 dmg, 1000 delay 5x30
Mid level stats: 7 dmg, 950 delay 5x30
High level stats: 8 dmg, 950 delay 5x30
Donation stats: 9 dmg, 950 delay 6x30
Donation+ stats: 9 dmg, 950 delay 6x30
SHOTGUNS 1
Higher delay balance is required to balance shotguns especially for RS, if you have low delay shotguns then RS will be super fast and shotguns already had the edge since the beginning of kstyle. Note that a delay on SG effects both swap-shot and reload-shot spam so you are lowering the bar for skill and promoting spam by making low delay sgs. It's been said already but SGs should be in the 1k range. Starting at 1200 delay and minimum of 950, donors having 850 is far too low and spammable.
Everyone always talks about the 6x5 clip but no one ever tries 5x6. Reloading and managing your ammo in 5x5 vs 6x5 is unfair and the player with 6 obviously can punish you easily when you have to reload. Giving every donor 6clip and every bounty 5clip is bad balancing and is just Pay2Win. Making it 5x6 is the same total ammo, but now the player doesn't have an advantage at every reload.
SHOTGUNS 2
Sooo HotShots, I can't say I have ever seen someone use this weapon seriously outside of zombie games. Occasionally I will see people use it, but it's more of a pestering weapon and pointless for this game. I would also say HotShots removed a large part of fun out of Infected when it pushes people back so easily there's no threat. Really this weapon is only good for Infected and it makes infected lame so it's better off changed.
Why not just have a different class of shotguns, at least to try out as the current HotShots are nothing but for lulz. HotShots can be the RS-happy lower delay lower damage sgs. If you want a SG with under normal SG 1000 delay then you use a HotShot, sounds fair. You can also edit the number of pellets in shotgun sprays so they can have lower pellet count, lower damage, low delay than standards, but have a bigger ammo clip.
HotShots can be the SGs that have 6 ammo clips, not normal or donor SGs. If RS spam with the new Hotshots is a huge problem then knock it down to 4-5 size clips.
SHOTGUNS 3
Avengers. They stopped on lv45 for ijji with only 2 Avengers in the game. There should at least be one more, with an extra bullet maybe maxing out at 3 devastating blows before reloading. Donor Avg can have an additional +1 dmg or +1 pellet or lower delay than the max.
At higher levels Avengers may need to be reworked to have lower delay to compete with the rest of the guns, especially for other shotgun RS. But it shouldn't be as fast as the best Shotguns or Hotshots. More likely, have an Avengers highest level delays be closer to an early Shotgun at 1000 or 1100. They have low clips so they are NOT spam weapons.
At high levels Avengers should be able to 2hit kill someone with PBs to compete with 3hit PBs of SGs. They can't be spammed across the map like Snipers, so 2hit KO is fair, before ijji introduced prems the Avenger MK2 was able to 2hit KO. So the balance should be restored to deal with FGs tank armor.
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The [ex] tag should go, as it harms strategy with grenades and rockets to deal with pot-shot campers. Explosives can be re-balanced instead. Consider the maximum grenades you were allowed was 4, not 6. I think it would be okay balance if the larger clips did less damage. Currently 6, 100dmg grenades is tons of explosive spam so I see the [ex] tag just being a bandaid to Predator and an overly large amount of 100+ dmg grenades.
If possible, give training grenades or 1hit KO 2hit KO a different explosion (old firework fx), and keep the explosion FX for standard grenades. This way people can tell if the explosion is deadly or not by visible FX on the screen. If this is not possible then at LEAST change the look of training grenades, 1hit, 2hit and standard grenades so they dont all look exactly the same... that's just poor informing.
this exactly best post a staff has ever posted on this fukin forum ever s/o notorious for actually being the only staff who understands what makes a good server cause hes the only staff player with skill even if its little kappaQuote:
Originally Posted by Notorious
But i made guud suggestion too.Quote:
Originally Posted by traumatis3r
Back again, remember the sub-classes of weapon types I talked about? Here is an example of breaking the some melees in the xml into a more thought out system instead of smashing it all together. One of the things barely touched upon in this server is [B]weight for balance.
This sub-class would be heavier weight, slower delay, more damage than Sword / Katanas. I have always been a fan of visual ques and it should behave like I expect it to, it looks dumb if a player is swinging around a huge sword with super low delay. The general concept of the Blunt / Heavy "sword" class is like Shotguns vs Avengers. Blunt/Heavy "sword" weapons should start at level1 since they are their own class.
You could completely do away with Lsword x1 or x2's slot in the xml and use this instead but that's up to the FG devs. If you want them to feel even more different you can give them Lsword's animations + blocks but NOT Lsword's range these are the same length as typical Sword/Katanas, Lswords are pretty wonky animation though.
These are a bunch Sword/Katanas that I feel like fit into the same sort of branch.
http://i.imgur.com/4WqjvQB.jpg
I ignored the current level structure and just went by an order of which looks least threatening to most impressive, roughly from an artists perspective. Around every 5 of these classes there's an Axe. Since there's so few Axes in the xml I wanted to make the Axes stand out as kind of a last-stage before the next tier. I actually hate the Quake-Axe and think it should be removed but there's no other Axe to put in it's place, maybe the Hammer can be used instead for that "Axe"?
I broke up the reskinned weapons to be farther apart, due to FGs leveling you would just go right past it immediately to ever care so this way the reskinned weapon like GobClub vs GoldGobClub feels like a next stage instead of a minor baby step. Also applies to Rudra and Agni being separated by a tier.
Official GunZ servers had a good feel for getting to level 30 or so but after that it was a grind to get to the final weapons at Lv50. If FG breaks weapons into their own sub-classes that have their own Lv1-99s. then you can stagger and balance the amount of content a little better. These sword of sub-weapon classes can be applied to a lot of the weapons in the game, like Avengers should have it's own category when it's brought back.
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SNIPERS
Before I end this post I'll talk about everyones favorite on this server... theres a lot of wailing and knashing teeth about Snipers to be removed or to be nerfed from all sides like the discussed reduced damage by closer distance which makes absolutely NO SENSE and it's poor game design when no other weapon behaves this way, nor is it intuitive.
Have you tried this?
Make it so you can only equip ONE sniper, and have Snipers have very high delay so no RS sniper swaps. Either by coding the sniper to reject another sniper like when you try to equip 2 of the same item or just increase the weight to be 30+ because 20 weight is too low to allow you to equip two. Maybe 40 weight is the ideal because it will sacrifice the ability to use meds.
However you will have to drastically rework the rest of the weight in the xml because right now weight is the worst form of FG's balance. There's no point to trying to balance by weight if you can just stack up +10 weight rings and call it a day. The weight balance in GunZ works best at 100, as it was originally intended.
@Qwin your posts are very useful to us and will definitely be used as a reference for our next client version.
sorry dave but this idea is bad ...
State your reasons why. Because it's a change that will most likely be happeningQuote:
Originally Posted by Enriceq
Very soon.
Using weight to balance snipers/certain other guns is fine, but weight is something you need to be careful with when it comes to things people commonly equip.
Weight mostly alienates players and makes the game more complicated than it has to be, because there will always be an optimal setup for whatever weight restriction is present. It's fine to use weight for sniper or things like that, but weight for melee weapons/armor/meds/common sg or rev loadouts is a big trap unless you make a ridiculously powerful and gimmicky melee weapon that has a really high weight or something along those lines. Even that is kind of bad because of the glad community.
A certain server is really unapproachable because of its convoluted equipment system, and even the old igunz/ijji/official style weight system is pure garbage. Nostalgia aside, having to bust out a pen and paper or spreadsheet or javascript calculator to figure out your armor setup was super pointless and dumb. Weapon weights are okay, but making different armors have slightly different hp/ap values and different weights just adds a layer of complexity that has a single solution and adds nothing to the game.
Arguably, setting -hp/-ap with a 0 weight weapon (sniper/mgun/dual rifles?) would achieve similar results to adding high weight. Two snipers is not a problem because one sniper+another weapon (rifle/mg/shotgun) is likely more optimal than two snipers. Snipers are too accurate, can be aimed then scoped+fired immediately, and do too much damage relative to the other guns in the game. That is their problem and why they are pretty much overpowered garbage. Adding weight or an equivalent to them doesn't fix them, because a single sniper equipped is game breaking.
Revs and shotguns are super inconsistent, rev damage is low, and rifles don't do burst damage or allow for mobility while using them. Rifles are like lightning gun in quake except you can't have high accuracy due to how gunz' movement system works. Sniper has none of these drawbacks. It's literally move as fast as normal, switch+point, right+left click, 90% of your hp is gone from anywhere on the map. Revs are how snipers work in the gameplay environment of gunz.
I also think you should address that sniper can be used in TDM but not CW. It's unfair that such an overpowered weapon can ruin a format that could be seen as "practice" for cw. If it were enabled in CW then fine, everyone has to use sniper because that's this server's unique thing. Please disable it from both or at least give a tag to disable it. [sgo] is not the same because cw is not [sgo] and only big babies care if someone is using revs or non-sniper guns.
to start, GET RID OF [R] TAG???????? Best stats are 120/100 all around. no level restrictions since we all know how to play gunz by now. donors would be 130-110. shop sgs at all lvls(0-99) should do 8 dmg/5x5 with 1k delay(no need for lower delays...) donors would do 9/6x5. lb would be 10/6x5 or 6x6 and still in lucky boxes(would change since it's harder to get). the vials are already removed so that's fine. And yea. You want a balanced server where skill outweighs spam, there you go
preachQuote:
Originally Posted by Avenge
I think that aside balance, which is a big issue, there's the bigger problem of people walking because there's no reason not to right now. Kinda ruins/ruined the fun for me.
So I guess I'd go with something like this:
Weapon: Shotgun
Low level stats: 6 dmg / 1100 delay 5x5
Mid level stats: 6 dmg / 1000 delay // 7 dmg / 1100 delay 5x5
High level stats: 7 dmg / 1000 delay 5x5
Donation stats: 8 dmg / 1100 delay 5x5
Donation+ stats: 8 dmg / 1000 delay 5x5 (possibly 5x6)
As far as balance goes, donor would give an advantage, but it wouldn't be overpowering. I don't think the goal is to have regular shotguns boasting the power of avengers.
Anyways, I should know that this is not falling into deaf ears, but I really don't have the motivation to go through all the weapon types unless I know it would actually get a reply (no doubt you're seeing it, but a reply's always appreciated as an actual acknowledgement off seeing it). So I guess this is just a sample of stats with no wall of justification written to back it up.
Anyways, I haven't always agreed with everything, but I know you guys are working only in the best interest of this server and I appreciate it. So, once again, thanks for showing an interest in balance and what we have to say.
Best regards,
-Jawarisin
Low level stats: 6 damage 950 delay 5x5
Mid level stats: 7 damage 1150-950 delay 5x5
High level stats: 8 damage , 9 damage for level 99. 1100-100 delay 5x5
Donation stats: The same as they are now
Donation+ stats: The same as they are now