Fix the toxic daggers or give the ability to ban them in Glad

I helped suggesting balance FG in the past with weapon classes, but since v8 this server has gone downhill completely in many ways.

For years glads had told the staff about a bug that made someone looking 90 degrees up completely invincible and this was never fixed until the glad community as a whole had already abandoned FG. I bring that up because now glads were giving the server a chance again, but now starting to talk about dropping FG again due to word of mouth of this NEW problem caused by the staff and the bias (yet again).


This year in April FG gave everyone 23+ dmg swords and kodachis, (only part of that has been addressed) and introduced a completely busted version of 'daggers'. These 'daggers' are toxic in every way imaginable to the community as a whole and this is FGs fault, and yet players on both ends have to suffer because of it for no good reason. Well now we're at a boiling point where people are being kicked or IP banned over it because its OK to punish glads for wanting to play glad according to FGs GMs.


Gladiator Players have always kicked or barred something toxic to the gameplay. Is this a hard concept to understand?

• 200+ ping -> Kicked or barred
• Spike -> Kicked or barred
• Flip -> Kicked or barred
• OP Element -> Kicked or barred
• Excessive Pedal -> Kicked or barred
• Running -> Kicked or barred
• Lsword -> Kicked or barred
• TK -> Kicked or barred
• Nonbow -> Kicked or barred
• Piss/Donor -> Kicked or barred
• FGs new long-range hyper-fast super-powered 'daggers' now get the same treatment -> Kicked or barred

1. Either fix these 'daggers' and re-balance them as they are inherently broken
2. Give them the ability to be banned from game creation like SGO, and how Glad mode disables elements and flips
3. or stop abiding by favoritism with whining donors and rein in your staff with this clear bias bending the rules to ban glads. People have been kicked from glad rooms for all of the above and not a single one of them ever reported anyone, until now with obnoxious 'dagger' trolls who have no respect for community rules and overblown ego since April.

The reports were abusing a kick function. It was a targeted and clear attack on a single player. I'm sinbad in game,there are records that show an instant kick every attempt at joining a gladiator game. In terms of duel matches i have been kicked before even spawning into the match. How was i kicked before spawning you might ask. Well even when you take the lowest level dagger to even the playing field it's simply not enough. I believe i am the only reason why there should be a dagger nerf. I believe they are too strong and need reduction in damage. Although i will STILL beat any and every gladiator. Even with blocking. No one is trolling with daggers,sworders are a little upset someone else is winning. Sorry for changing the meta so fast on you.

If what i say isnt true; show me someone else who is streaking everyday with daggers.
Show me someone who streams out smarting sworders everyday.
Like i said i accept the challenge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moh

The reports were abusing a kick function. It was a targeted and clear attack on a single player. I'm sinbad in game,there are records that show an instant kick every attempt at joining a gladiator game. In terms of duel matches i have been kicked before even spawning into the match. How was i kicked before spawning you might ask. Well even when you take the lowest level dagger to even the playing field it's simply not enough. I believe i am the only reason why there should be a dagger nerf. I believe they are too strong and need reduction in damage. Although i will STILL beat any and every gladiator. Even with blocking. No one is trolling with daggers,sworders are a little upset someone else is winning. Sorry for changing the meta so fast on you.

If what i say isnt true; show me someone else who is streaking everyday with daggers.
Show me someone who streams out smarting sworders everyday.
Like i said i accept the challenge.

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I'd probably insta-kick you too, before you absolutely ruin my day with your stabby stick. :(
You're the reason I both Love & Hate to watch d-stylers.

Also watch this stream i saved and tell me how daggers are trolling.
http://www.twitch.tv/sinbad1337/v/61...5?sr=a&t=1805s

I will only say this. Swords can block Daggers can't, you call yourself a gladder and can't block a dagger? Get out!!!

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Originally Posted by AnnaLOVESYOU

I will only say this. Swords can block Daggers can't, you call yourself a gladder and can't block a dagger? Get out!!!

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Agreed,we also have to charge a massive instead of blocking to receive one instantly.

So daggers cant block and they cant massive as much.

Anyone can counter daggers by ground slashing an approach. The people who time ground slash and then proceed to massive chain win.

But yes,ban daggers from glad because they're op.

Allow me to administer a dose of reality, Sinbad. No one is attacking you or afraid of you, they just don't want to play with you because you're annoying and boring to fight. And no, you can't beat every gladiator. Try 1v1ing someone in a fight where you both die in an equal amount of hits and see how that goes. The only reason you don't see people streaking in gladiator duel rooms with a dagger is because you're the only one willing to tank up and cheese wins against people with a broken weapon using a style that no one cares to try against.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moh

The reports were abusing a kick function. It was a targeted and clear attack on a single player. I'm sinbad in game,there are records that show an instant kick every attempt at joining a gladiator game.

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Wrong. You and the GMs making up your own rules and you are both going to do more harm to a global community with your incessant whining getting players banned because they dont want to play with broken items.

If you're SinBad then clearly no one likes you because you come into games and antagonize an entire community, and now going out of your way to get people banned so I will call you a troll. I will be blunt, people are already talking about leaving FG over this shitshow by the staff if it continues in that direction, which would be a shame as glads are finally becoming active on FG again.

Gladiators want to play Gladiator, get it?
who is better on equal footing or at the least without being a colossal waste of time. Yet now glads are being held at gunpoint to put up with a snowflake forced on them by bad GMs and abused due to someone who wont abide by community's rules that are understood and shared globally for over a decade. It's pathetic how an entire community is being threatened, warned or banned over someones hurt feelings because they chose to play with something that 100+ users agree is overpowered and does not want to play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moh

In terms of duel matches i have been kicked before even spawning into the match. How was i kicked before spawning you might ask. Well even when you take the lowest level dagger to even the playing field it's simply not enough.

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I don't blame you I blame the staff but even the lowest level of dagger is still toxic, so you will still be kicked when you refuse to grab a sword because of how stupid it is for everyone else to be expected to put up with it.

If you have refused to grab a sword time after time for weeks or longer then you have no one to blame but yourself, everyone knows what to expect and you have no defense for why you are kicked because you will never play with a sword so lets stop pretending.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnnaLOVESYOU

I will only say this. Swords can block Daggers can't, you call yourself a gladder and can't block a dagger? Get out!!!

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Since April they do not have 'equal footing' as a sword on FG, thats a meme by ignorant players and staff such as yourself. Neither is the con of not being able to block have any validity in this argument, or needing to charge a massive manually when weighed against everything else.

Let's have a look at just how many problems these 'daggers' have

• Since April even the minimal lowest level 'daggers' are now stronger than a sword with absurd delay dps and can outpace a donor sword.
• Combined with a dash they can have nearly the range of an Lsword and easily outrange a sword
• They are more or equally as busted as any element or flip, as 2-3 hits within less than a second can take a serious chunk out of hp.
• While original daggers did, these require no skill what so ever to avoid recoil
• Easier to kite massives than a sword, with minimal effort spamming left click at safe distance
• Even after being massived and 2-3 slashes, can still do more damage by spamming click and dashing out
• In team fights the side with a 'dagger' on their side is more likely to win
• Since lunge damage is dictated by dagger damage, this makes all lunges and elunges stupidly overpowered as
  well since the buff.
• Can juggle someone in the air due to how low delay and long it is, making it more OP than a flip with a sword

Why is it OK for glad to ban elements but not 'daggers' which are more or as toxic than elements?
Why is it OK for glad to ban flips but not 'daggers' which are more toxic than flips?
Why is it OK for glad to ban piss/tank but not 'daggers' which are more toxic?

If you cant give any answer besides BUT IT CANT BLOCK then it says enough of your bias.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deviok

Allow me to administer a dose of reality, Sinbad. No one is attacking you or afraid of you, they just don't want to play with you because you're annoying and boring to fight. And no, you can't beat every gladiator. Try 1v1ing someone in a fight where you both die in an equal amount of hits and see how that goes. The only reason you don't see people streaking in gladiator duel rooms with a dagger is because you're the only one willing to tank up and cheese wins against people with a broken weapon using a style that no one cares to try against.

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https://imgur.com/a/VIq6eT1

I guess some people are,or used to be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Qwin

Since April they do not have 'equal footing' as a sword on FG, thats a meme by ignorant players and staff such as yourself. Neither is the con of not being able to block have any validity in this argument, or needing to charge a massive manually when weighed against everything else.

Let's have a look at just how many problems these 'daggers' have

• Since April even the minimal lowest level 'daggers' are now stronger than a sword with absurd delay dps and can outpace a donor sword.
• Combined with a dash they can have nearly the range of an Lsword and easily outrange a sword
• They are more or equally as busted as any element or flip, as 2-3 hits within less than a second can take a serious chunk out of hp.
• While original daggers did, these require no skill what so ever to avoid recoil
• Easier to kite massives than a sword, with minimal effort spamming left click at safe distance
• Even after being massived and 2-3 slashes, can still do more damage by spamming click and dashing out
• In team fights the side with a 'dagger' on their side is more likely to win
• Since lunge damage is dictated by dagger damage, this makes all lunges and elunges stupidly overpowered as
  well since the buff.
• Can juggle someone in the air due to how low delay and long it is, making it more OP than a flip with a sword

Why is it OK for glad to ban elements but not 'daggers' which are more or as toxic than elements?
Why is it OK for glad to ban flips but not 'daggers' which are more toxic than flips?
Why is it OK for glad to ban piss/tank but not 'daggers' which are more toxic?

If you cant give any answer besides BUT IT CANT BLOCK then it says enough of your bias.

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First of all no one uses dagger like when i use them. Seems like the majority of the community still uses swords and don't care either way when losing in a normal gunz match. So why should you ban them in a gladiator match when you can't beat them.

Imagine banning the use of daggers because some people who usually win are losing occasionally.
Imagine using daggers for 10 years and then not even being able to use daggers is a GLADIATOR match.
Daggers aren't broken in overall stats and they should be a viable option.
Also most of those statements are assuming you know how to use a dagger.
If anyone could do it why do we only see me doing it.

intense

This is stupid, since when glad is Sword only? It's like saying PvP is SG only, and because this rest of weapons should be nerfed. So i believe the daggers are good as they are right now. Anyway, if it's really annoy the daggers on glad (which i don't understand because swords can block while daggers can't), just suggest a tag of Sword Only and u have this solved. Don't need to nerf daggers just because some sword ppl can't block a dagger.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sinon

This is stupid, since when glad is Sword only? It's like saying PvP is SG only, and because this rest of weapons should be nerfed. So i believe the daggers are good as they are right now. Anyway, if it's really annoy the daggers on glad (which i don't understand because swords can block while daggers can't), just suggest a tag of Sword Only and u have this solved. Don't need to nerf daggers just because some sword ppl can't block a dagger.

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Well said here, there is no need to argue guys, a simple title saying "Only Rusty Swords", "Only swords" will be efficient. It's the fairest thing that could be done. It's a title that has been used x amount of years. People will more likely take it in consideration to use that weapon in that room. Maybe change the format and suggestion to "add swords only button" just like how there's a no explosive button. Not saying everyone will obligate to "Swords only" "Rusty's only" but there are some people who take it in deep consideration to switch weapons and honor it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Qwin

Wrong. You and the GMs making up your own rules and you are both going to do more harm to a global community with your incessant whining getting players banned because they dont want to play with broken items.

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Hello Qwin,

Thanks for expressing your concern, as we are trying to make the game fair for everyone. From the previous reports we have received most to all of them were kicking without a valid reasoning. As you feel as it is unreasonable to play with such player that does not use a sword it is also unreasonable for us to not take in consideration of both parties. Think about it this way, don't you feel like its unreasonable to kick someone just because they are good at something but aren't as good with something that you are using? As for your reasoning in kicking players without a valid reason is against the rules. Think about it in reverse, what if you were kicked for being good at using a sword/using swords in general. Wouldn't be fair wouldn't it. Take what I said above this in consideration and comment on the "add swords only button".

Thanks,
Mrmister

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Qwin

I helped suggesting balance FG in the past with weapon classes, but since v8 this server has gone downhill completely in many ways.

For years glads had told the staff about a bug that made someone looking 90 degrees up completely invincible and this was never fixed until the glad community as a whole had already abandoned FG. I bring that up because now glads were giving the server a chance again, but now starting to talk about dropping FG again due to word of mouth of this NEW problem caused by the staff and the bias (yet again).


This year in April FG gave everyone 23+ dmg swords and kodachis, (only part of that has been addressed) and introduced a completely busted version of 'daggers'. These 'daggers' are toxic in every way imaginable to the community as a whole and this is FGs fault, and yet players on both ends have to suffer because of it for no good reason. Well now we're at a boiling point where people are being kicked or IP banned over it because its OK to punish glads for wanting to play glad according to FGs GMs.


Gladiator Players have always kicked or barred something toxic to the gameplay. Is this a hard concept to understand?

• 200+ ping -> Kicked or barred
• Spike -> Kicked or barred
• Flip -> Kicked or barred
• OP Element -> Kicked or barred
• Excessive Pedal -> Kicked or barred
• Running -> Kicked or barred
• Lsword -> Kicked or barred
• TK -> Kicked or barred
• Nonbow -> Kicked or barred
• Piss/Donor -> Kicked or barred
• FGs new long-range hyper-fast super-powered 'daggers' now get the same treatment -> Kicked or barred

1. Either fix these 'daggers' and re-balance them as they are inherently broken
2. Give them the ability to be banned from game creation like SGO, and how Glad mode disables elements and flips
3. or stop abiding by favoritism with whining donors and rein in your staff with this clear bias bending the rules to ban glads. People have been kicked from glad rooms for all of the above and not a single one of them ever reported anyone, until now with obnoxious 'dagger' trolls who have no respect for community rules and overblown ego since April.

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Hi Qwin,

Thank you for your suggestion. I understand your frustration at this point so please be patient for now. The staff will come with some kind of solution so that both parties can be happy. For now, as MrMister has mentioned, please try to include what kind of glad room you would like if you create the room.

Seems it's simply a clash of ideologies. Sinbad doesn't realize the gladiator community has been rolling 15 dmg rusty swords and sub 150hp/ap total for over a decade now.
Along with community enforced rules of no flips or PEDAL. Which inherently dagger only users do.

I'll agree, dagger's needed a buff to keep up with Kstyle/gunners. But they now go against core tenants of gladiator, besides just TTK imbalance issue. I.e, poke someone 6 times to death vs requiring 17 slashes.
So that option for Sword only in glad rooms is probably the right idea honestly.
Edit: Also Sword only option for Duel glad rooms. Or hell, forced 15dmg melee weps with Glad tag. Whichever makes more sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moh

I believe i am the only reason why there should be a dagger nerf. I believe they are too strong and need reduction in damage. Although i will STILL beat any and every gladiator. Even with blocking. No one is trolling with daggers,sworders are a little upset someone else is winning. Sorry for changing the meta so fast on you. If what i say isnt true; show me someone else who is streaking everyday with daggers.
Show me someone who streams out smarting sworders everyday.
Like i said i accept the challenge.

---

Lets ask this. If you are such a "Godly dstyler" as you claim, where were you years ago in glad rooms when 'daggers' werent completely busted until recently? We both know the answer, you were never streaking anything or even a threat or had a name or rep to anyone in glad games until the April patch which made them toxic and gave you an over-inflated ego.

Please take a seat, you are nothing more than fueled with hot air, just listen to yourself "IM THE ONLY REASON!" You didnt change the meta, you're doing nothing at all anymore than people using an element as a crutch 'changed the meta' and was barred from glad immediately.

The fact is there's been multiple cases of people intentionally trolling with them has been a reoccurring factor ruining games many times already. You're just are enabled by a totally broken item balance. But at least we agree on that they should be nerfed or banned from glad rooms. The April buff was a try, but ultimately a failure in balance. Whats more toxic is the staff reaction to glads kicking people using 'daggers' because they are busted and then dishing out warnings or bans.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Qwin

Lets ask this. If you are such a "Godly dstyler" as you claim, where were you years ago in glad rooms when 'daggers' werent completely busted until recently? We both know the answer, you were never streaking anything or even a threat or had a name or rep to anyone in glad games until the April patch which made them toxic and gave you an over-inflated ego.

Please take a seat, you are nothing more than fueled with hot air, just listen to yourself "IM THE ONLY REASON!" You didnt change the meta, you're doing nothing at all anymore than people using an element as a crutch 'changed the meta' and was barred from glad immediately.

The fact is there's been multiple cases of people intentionally trolling with them has been a reoccurring factor ruining games many times already. You're just are enabled by a totally broken item balance. But at least we agree on that they should be nerfed or banned from glad rooms. The April buff was a try, but ultimately a failure in balance. Whats more toxic is the staff reaction to glads kicking people using 'daggers' because they are busted and then dishing out warnings or bans.

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You're completely false,i have never had an interest in gladiator. It's interesting to me lately but now i see it's not favorable among the glads. How do you even call yourself a gladiator when you refuse to play daggers.

Btw i have endless videos of me winning gladiator matches before the update in april. I streamed it on twitch.tv/sinbad1337. No one complained until i started streakint 50-10

Hi Qwin and Moh,

I understand how you both feel, but as Bulba as stated please be patient with Staff. This isn't the place to fight with each other over glad. Specify what kind of rooms you create in game and make a suggestion thread calmly stating "swords only tag". Arguing with one another is not the Key to resolving the problem.

Thank you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Qwin

Lets ask this. If you are such a "Godly dstyler" as you claim, where were you years ago in glad rooms when 'daggers' werent completely busted until recently? We both know the answer, you were never streaking anything or even a threat or had a name or rep to anyone in glad games until the April patch which made them toxic and gave you an over-inflated ego.

Please take a seat, you are nothing more than fueled with hot air, just listen to yourself "IM THE ONLY REASON!" You didnt change the meta, you're doing nothing at all anymore than people using an element as a crutch 'changed the meta' and was barred from glad immediately.

The fact is there's been multiple cases of people intentionally trolling with them has been a reoccurring factor ruining games many times already. You're just are enabled by a totally broken item balance. But at least we agree on that they should be nerfed or banned from glad rooms. The April buff was a try, but ultimately a failure in balance. Whats more toxic is the staff reaction to glads kicking people using 'daggers' because they are busted and then dishing out warnings or bans.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moh

You're completely false,i have never had an interest in gladiator. It's interesting to me lately but now i see it's not favorable among the glads. How do you even call yourself a gladiator when you refuse to play daggers.

Btw i have endless videos of me winning gladiator matches before the update in april. I streamed it on twitch.tv/sinbad1337. No one complained until i started streakint 50-10

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Hello Moh and Qwin,

I do see you guys have different and conflicting ideologies, please refrain from arguing and post solutions and SUGGESTIONS as this is a Suggestions page.
We do understand that all of you guys have concerns but arguing and causing conflict will not result in a solution. You may comment on each others suggestions but please do it in a ordinary fashion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mrmistersir

Hello Moh and Qwin,

I do see you guys have different and conflicting ideologies, please refrain from arguing and post solutions and SUGGESTIONS as this is a Suggestions page.
We do understand that all of you guys have concerns but arguing and causing conflict will not result in a solution. You may comment on each others suggestions but please do it in a ordinary fashion.

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Reduce rusty dagger to 15 damage. That way rustys would be a thing. Its too high sitting at 23 and the delay is already slow as can be with 366. If i joined a glad room with a rusty dagger it should be allowed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sinon

This is stupid, since when glad is Sword only? It's like saying PvP is SG only, and because this rest of weapons should be nerfed. So i believe the daggers are good as they are right now. Anyway, if it's really annoy the daggers on glad (which i don't understand because swords can block while daggers can't),
just suggest a tag of Sword Only and u have this solved. Don't need to nerf daggers just because some sword ppl can't block a dagger.

---

Since the beginning, do you live under a rock? I am not talking about gladiator as a game mode of melee only but what players have played with community established rules for over a decade.

The reason daggers were rarely if ever seen in gladiator was because they were a meme, easily outclassed by swords until the April patch which broke them. Kodachis were acceptable, the expectation was the same as with Rusty swords 15 dmg or less.

But beyond that what do you have? Lswords are another weapon that was barred from glad and will get you kicked just as much as the 'daggers' for similar reasons. It's only recently with the April version of daggers thats causing the conflict with warnings and bans due to bad balancing and strife with the community vs staff. I don't throw around the word 'toxic' much but this is a clear case of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Qwin

I helped suggesting balance FG in the past with weapon classes, but since v8 this server has gone downhill completely in many ways.

For years glads had told the staff about a bug that made someone looking 90 degrees up completely invincible and this was never fixed until the glad community as a whole had already abandoned FG. I bring that up because now glads were giving the server a chance again, but now starting to talk about dropping FG again due to word of mouth of this NEW problem caused by the staff and the bias (yet again).


This year in April FG gave everyone 23+ dmg swords and kodachis, (only part of that has been addressed) and introduced a completely busted version of 'daggers'. These 'daggers' are toxic in every way imaginable to the community as a whole and this is FGs fault, and yet players on both ends have to suffer because of it for no good reason. Well now we're at a boiling point where people are being kicked or IP banned over it because its OK to punish glads for wanting to play glad according to FGs GMs.


Gladiator Players have always kicked or barred something toxic to the gameplay. Is this a hard concept to understand?

• 200+ ping -> Kicked or barred
• Spike -> Kicked or barred
• Flip -> Kicked or barred
• OP Element -> Kicked or barred
• Excessive Pedal -> Kicked or barred
• Running -> Kicked or barred
• Lsword -> Kicked or barred
• TK -> Kicked or barred
• Nonbow -> Kicked or barred
• Piss/Donor -> Kicked or barred
• FGs new long-range hyper-fast super-powered 'daggers' now get the same treatment -> Kicked or barred

1. Either fix these 'daggers' and re-balance them as they are inherently broken
2. Give them the ability to be banned from game creation like SGO, and how Glad mode disables elements and flips
3. or stop abiding by favoritism with whining donors and rein in your staff with this clear bias bending the rules to ban glads. People have been kicked from glad rooms for all of the above and not a single one of them ever reported anyone, until now with obnoxious 'dagger' trolls who have no respect for community rules and overblown ego since April.

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https://freestylersworld.com/showthr...95#post1075695

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bulba

Hi Qwin,

Thank you for your suggestion. I understand your frustration at this point so please be patient for now. The staff will come with some kind of solution so that both parties can be happy. For now, as MrMister has mentioned, please try to include what kind of glad room you would like if you create the room.

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The range is too long from whats been seen, which is where a lot of the problems come from. This has been a reoccurring problem with changes servers make regardless of what weapons, as range always has very big ripple effects. Long range / high damage daggers are a very old concept, but did not have the very low delay as FGs so they had some balance to them. If they are fast and hit hard then they should not be overly long on top of it.

For now a compromise that Moh suggested with a 15 damage rusty dagger can be trialed. As that would be the easiest to implement with just a zitem change if people using them abide by the community rules. Beyond that, if it's still too busted then a Katana/Kodachi only option would be beneficial going forward which I suggested in the first post and title. "Give glads the ability to ban them in game creation".

If FG wanted to do anything further to enforce standardization that glads use that would take extra coding like the now defunct server CG to override HP/AP values and damages for all players to have the same equal footing, similar to how vanilla mode works

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malikb0ss

But they now go against core tenants of gladiator, besides just TTK imbalance issue. I.e, poke someone 6 times to death vs requiring 17 slashes.

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care to explain how you came up with this marvelous math?

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Originally Posted by Bunny

care to explain how you came up with this marvelous math?

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I know right, 6 pokes = death, gosh i swore swords can block making the daggers use more pokes to kill someone off, gosh can a dagger block too so they don't get hit 100% of the time too and die quicker than sword users.

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Originally Posted by AnnaLOVESYOU

I know right, 6 pokes = death, gosh i swore swords can block making the daggers use more pokes to kill someone off, gosh can a dagger block too so they don't get hit 100% of the time too and die quicker than sword users.

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its not that, looking at the damage, dagger clearly doesn't almost 3x dmg than a sword.

The dmg is not my point. If you don't want to die from a dagger just God damn use your block function. And most of the time when that happens dagger users get massive then die right after.

- Decrease piercing ratio of daggers to be equal to all melee weapons (0.7 -> 0.6)
- Add a Rusty dagger with lower damage
- Decrease dagger range
- Change [V] tag to force 15 damage on all melee weapons

From all these ideas I think it's probably enough to add a Rusty Dagger with 18 damage and change the piercing rate to 0.6 (all daggers are slightly OP due to the higher piercing rate, so I think that nerf is needed). 15 damage is probably too low because daggers do not have the ability to block or counter slashes, unlike swords. So forcing the same damage on both does not really level the playing field for them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by McSic

- Decrease piercing ratio of daggers to be equal to all melee weapons (0.7 -> 0.6)
- Add a Rusty dagger with lower damage
- Decrease dagger range
- Change [V] tag to force 15 damage on all melee weapons

From all these ideas I think it's probably enough to add a Rusty Dagger with 18 damage and change the piercing rate to 0.6 (all daggers are slightly OP due to the higher piercing rate, so I think that nerf is needed). 15 damage is probably too low because daggers do not have the ability to block or counter slashes, unlike swords. So forcing the same damage on both does not really level the playing field for them.

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I trust McSic's opinion,i look forward to this dagger nerf.

With that being said i agree 15 may be too low.
Also are you saying keep the peircing range the same for all daggers and only change rusty dagger?

Alot of tdms use [V] so if it limits all melee weapons to 15 damage its essentially completely different game because the max sword damage is nearly twice that.

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Originally Posted by Moh

I trust McSic's opinion,i look forward to this dagger nerf.

With that being said i agree 15 may be too low.
Also are you saying keep the peircing range the same for all daggers and only change rusty dagger?

Alot of tdms use [V] so if it limits all melee weapons to 15 damage its essentially completely different game because the max sword damage is nearly twice that.

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Piercing ratio of all daggers (0.7 -> 0.6). I think the increased damage with the high piercing rate is the main reason why all daggers are seen as OP at the moment.

Yeah currently I'm not planning to implement that [V] change.

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Originally Posted by McSic

Piercing ratio of all daggers (0.7 -> 0.6). I think the increased damage with the high piercing rate is the main reason why all daggers are seen as OP at the moment.

Yeah currently I'm not planning to implement that [V] change.

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Oh okay gotcha.

Other than myself,has there been posts even videos regarding how "over powered" daggers are?
I guess what i'm asking is,where are all the other cries for daggers being broken.

Who else is playing daggers and doing their best in gladiator matches with them? Because i truly believe im the only person winning consistently.

I stream it everyday and it's great content.

Not many people now can say they've streaked with a rusty dagger.

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Originally Posted by Moh

Oh okay gotcha.

Other than myself,has there been posts even videos regarding how "over powered" daggers are?
I guess what i'm asking is,where are all the other cries for daggers being broken.

Who else is playing daggers and doing their best in gladiator matches with them? Because i truly believe im the only person winning consistently.

I stream it everyday and it's great content.

Not many people now can say they've streaked with a rusty dagger.

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Yeah, people barely play daggers. Always did. But many Gladiators don't use any other than 15 dmg Rusty Sword anyway.

I first noticed the need for a piercing ratio nerf when watching your stream.

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Originally Posted by McSic

Yeah, people barely play daggers. Always did. But many Gladiators don't use any other than 15 dmg Rusty Sword anyway.

I first noticed the need for a piercing ratio nerf when watching your stream.

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Oh you watch me on twitch.tv/sinbad1337

Either way the proposed 18 damage and peirce reduction seems fair.

I just want things to be fair,i hope i wont get kicked for using the nerfed rusty dagger.

Feel like daggers are fine right now outside of glad so maybe create a [V] specifically for glad rooms, pretty sure the gun community is less snow flaky and agrees with the major disadvantages to using dagger vs sword, especially when in normal rooms I've started to see more d-stylists giving the game a bit more variety again.

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Originally Posted by AnnaLOVESYOU

I will only say this. Swords can block Daggers can't, you call yourself a gladder and can't block a dagger? Get out!!!

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It is kind of difficult now so no, you can't simply "block" it. Daggers are OP. Which they will be nerfed anyway, thank God.
And you have a point about people kicking peddlers who are stalling, or laggers, spikers or whatnot.
Kicking people with element is no longer an option since you have the Glad option.
And kicking people who are using daggers, is like me being kicked from a duel room for using sprayer. ( Which I do because I aim better with sprayers. Not to troll.) That's bs. Maybe that player plays only with daggers too.
However, using a certain tag to limit certain weapons just like they do with gunners, isn't that bad, but then again, it isn't necessary too, seeing that daggers are going to be nerfed and not many players use them.

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Originally Posted by Bunny

care to explain how you came up with this marvelous math?

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27 damage high level daggers vs a gladiator with 100hp/48 ap.
15 damage rusty sword vs someone tanking to 140hp/120+ap. Rusty does 9 dmg to HP, 6 to AP per slash.

The problem isn't just the insane dagger damage that matches op/piss swords, its their base rusty dagger still doing nearly 10 dmg more vs base sword as well.
Combine that with having a nearly full iframe Alt-fire attack that does 2x dmg with a giant moving aoe hitbox(elunge)

There's just a flat out balancing issue. It's somewhat mitigated by using Vanilla tag to avoid tanking, but there is still the damage.

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Originally Posted by Bunny

care to explain how you came up with this marvelous math?

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Here's some math for you. 10 hits with a rusty sword vs around 150 total has been calculated as the standard for gladiator for a decade. On FG this means any 2 pieces of armor, no rings and 'daggers' only need to poke for about half of that.

7-8 hits, kills with the lowest 'rusty dagger' against full armor + rings.
VS
15 hits, kills with a rusty sword against full armor + rings

If you factor in the fact there's also donor armor like VIP sets then Malik's statement isnt even hyperbole, and would likely take 17 hits easily. Just as much as a higher level or donor dagger would take 7 hits or less vs the same armor. You can say "JUST USE MORE ARMOR" But this is ignorant and barely makes a difference and you can die from a 'dagger' while still having 40+ AP in the bar.

Even if you get a stronger sword, the 'dagger' has the advantage as it cuts through AP like butter with the hardcoded armor piercing ratio, so it makes very little difference how much AP someone uses against a bizzaro world shura 'dagger'. No one needed McSic to chime in to understand this fact, it's been known over a decade on the differences between the weapon classes.

The equivalent of what Moh or other 'dagger' users is doing would be someone going full tank vs an entire room of nude or nearly nude players as it takes 6-7 hits to kill with rusty slashes against someone who has no ap, everyone would agree that this would be stupid to need to do double the amount of hits every single time vs a single player.

Couple that with the new absurd range of 'daggers' and we have a weapon thats just as or more toxic than donor swords or flips and can dish out free punishment at minimal risk with heavy pedal via abusing the range of a 'dagger' which can be seen over and over like a one trick pony.

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Originally Posted by AnnaLOVESYOU

I know right, 6 pokes = death, gosh i swore swords can block making the daggers use more pokes to kill someone off, gosh can a dagger block too so they don't get hit 100% of the time too and die quicker than sword users.

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To the ignorant players like this who say JUST BLOCK!

April 'dagger' range, speed and damage of a constant left click spam easily forces anyone playing against a 'dagger' to be at an unreasonable disadvantage from a constant long range threat that can end matchups with 1-2 miss-fires of a massive with a few pokes.

Recoil is a core part of melee, as is skill in avoiding recoil. The April 'daggers' essentially negate that, as it takes FAR more to recoil someone spamming 'daggers' with long range, vs any player with a sword. A block can easily be tripped by the range and speed of a dagger making them a fully offensive spam people have limited options to deal with. Tap blocking vs a dagger stills forces you into a disadvantage in this state, putting someone under constant pressure is considered a skill in glad but it takes very little to do so with April 'daggers'.

Now maybe you will understand why no one is impressed over broken weapons streaking anything, or 'daggers' with as high kills in zerker because anyone playing with 'daggers' is using an extreme handicap, which is why they are being kicked and will be continued to be barred from glad.

This is not an instance of only 1 player being targeted over it, it's been seen in glad cw as well as in private games that 'dagger' melee has a high advantage since April over anyone using a sword. Why 'dagger's doing anything equal as a sword will still hold the advantage in dps and deserves hard nerf across the board.

In the past daggers had a significant disadvantage across the board, so tanking was allowed but this is no longer the case, yet 'dagger' users still tank and hold no respect for the community rules and people like Moh bringing maniac ego into it demanding people play with them or summon a GM to protect them from being kicked, argue with the community or dish out bans. Just toxic.

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Originally Posted by Qwin

Here's some math for you. 10 hits with a rusty sword vs around 150 total has been calculated as the standard for gladiator for a decade. On FG this means any 2 pieces of armor, no rings and 'daggers' only need to poke for about half of that.

7-8 hits, kills with the lowest 'rusty dagger' against full armor + rings.
VS
15 hits, kills with a rusty sword against full armor + rings

If you factor in the fact there's also donor armor like VIP sets then Malik's statement isnt even hyperbole, and would likely take 17 hits easily. Just as much as a higher level or donor dagger would take 7 hits or less vs the same armor. You can say "JUST USE MORE ARMOR" But this is ignorant and barely makes a difference and you can die from a 'dagger' while still having 40+ AP in the bar.

Even if you get a stronger sword, the 'dagger' has the advantage as it cuts through AP like butter with the hardcoded armor piercing ratio, so it makes very little difference how much AP someone uses against a bizzaro world shura 'dagger'. No one needed McSic to chime in to understand this fact, it's been known over a decade on the differences between the weapon classes.

The equivalent of what Moh or other 'dagger' users is doing would be someone going full tank vs an entire room of nude or nearly nude players as it takes 6-7 hits to kill with rusty slashes against someone who has no ap, everyone would agree that this would be stupid to need to do double the amount of hits every single time vs a single player.

Couple that with the new absurd range of 'daggers' and we have a weapon thats just as or more toxic than donor swords or flips and can dish out free punishment at minimal risk with heavy pedal via abusing the range of a 'dagger' which can be seen over and over like a one trick pony.

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your entire argument is invalid. you compare full vip/donor armor with 17 slashes on rusty to a nude user getting killed by a dagger to support your statement. your armor piercing argument is especially pointless when you tell people you barely have any armor on as youre wearing only 2 armor pieces.

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Originally Posted by Bunny

your entire argument is invalid. you compare full vip/donor armor with 17 slashes on rusty to a nude user getting killed by a dagger to support your statement. your armor piercing argument is especially pointless when you tell people you barely have any armor on as youre wearing only 2 armor pieces.

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You don't read very well do you? The entire aspect of daggers having high armor piercing ratio makes any number of low ap vs high ap totally irrelevant you at best get to survive 1 more hit if you chose to wear 100 ap vs 40ap because daggers largely ignore ap. This was already tested out and confirmed in private games.

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Originally Posted by Malikb0ss

27 damage high level daggers vs a gladiator with 100hp/48 ap.
15 damage rusty sword vs someone tanking to 140hp/120+ap. Rusty does 9 dmg to HP, 6 to AP per slash.

There's just a flat out balancing issue.

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If you're comparing a 100hp/48ap player using a 15 dmg rusty vs a 140hp/120ap player using a 27 damage HIGH LEVEL dagger the problem isnt with balancing, its with the players and what they chose to equip.
In this case the V tag is important to implement, but not otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Qwin

You don't read very well do you? The entire aspect of daggers having high armor piercing ratio makes any number of low ap vs high ap totally irrelevant you at best get to survive 1 more hit if you chose to wear 100 ap vs 40ap because daggers largely ignore ap. This was already tested out and confirmed in private games.

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With the piercing rate change that mcsic suggested (0.7->0.6), this shouldn't be a problem. But when you kick someone for using a dagger on you, do it because they have more hp and a non-rusty weapon, not because you think a rusty sword user with 100ap40ap should beat a 27 dmg dagger user with 140hp/120ap.

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Originally Posted by Bunny

If you're comparing a 100hp/48ap player using a 15 dmg rusty vs a 140hp/120ap player using a 27 damage HIGH LEVEL dagger the problem isnt with balancing, its with the players and what they chose to equip.
In this case the V tag is important to implement, but not otherwise.

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There is an extreme unbalance even with the lowest level 'rusty dagger' which has been explained at length already. The comparison of someone using 0 ap obviously flew over your head just counting hits.

Only malik was comparing 27 dmg daggers, which only exacerbates the obvious balance problem all 'daggers' have. Read the thread properly or don't post, as you're just filling up pages with nonsense failing to understand it.

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Originally Posted by Bunny

With the piercing rate change that mcsic suggested (0.7->0.6), this shouldn't be a problem. But when you kick someone for using a dagger on you, do it because they have more hp and a non-rusty weapon, not because you think a rusty sword user with 100ap40ap should beat a 27 dmg dagger user with 140hp/120ap.

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They are too good in too many areas, and the community runs out tolerance when held hostage to play them. The new revised rules on kicks will let people on both sides to cool off so that's good and we can all agree with community set titles if they dont want to put up with the April 'daggers' until a fix comes along and we'll have to revisit if it's enough.

give option to remove sword from clanwar its to op

shut your essay writing bitch ass up. you still gonna be complaining after the dagger nerf when sinbad continues to rekt your dumbasses
as mcsic's famous words go, getgud

Moved to have been added cause there have been some adjustments regarding daggers in the lastest patch.

https://freestylersworld.com/showthr...te-20-MAY-2020