Spectate in just normal rooms!

Suggestion type:
Forum/FGunZ/Other

I know its been suggested many times and it indeed got deny all those times for the sole reason of people wanted it for cw and probably using as an advantage! However , the only reason im suggesting this again, is just for casual play, specifically just normal rooms in the "Main Lobby". I ask this because I personally like watching people play gunz while I work or just to spectate duel rooms , tdm or private rooms while I eat or someshit :P.

Now I know you can still fight against it saying that ppl can still use this as an advantage again. So my counter arguement is just to set it as a setting in the room settings or Custom Game option where you can allow people to specrate or not. Heck theres even a lovely space for it :4 https://i.imgur.com/m5MkRNn.png

And idk maybe for VIP give them access to be able to spectate any room regardless of the option being on or off? Who knows im just sprouting ideas at this point.

In all honestly, I just would like to spectate game rooms just to chill instead of having to rejoin constantly.
What are yall thoughts on this?

Suggestion description:

Could instead maybe add a setting that skips your character when scrolling through spectate-able people that way you dont have to worry about people getting an advantage.

A harsh solution could be disabling the chat while you're spectating but then you can also leak their spots in VC although I don't think many users would do that.

In response to Ommadawn, definitely hasrh haha, however I dont think it should be that much of an issue. If spectate is enable by the game master and is shown that its active, people have the choice to join the room or not. For example, if people really care about people telling them where they are in tdms or in duel rooms lol, they already have the choice to 1. To Disable spectate mode if they are the host of the room or 2. Dont enter the room knowing the option spectate is enabled .

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Originally Posted by Montreal

In response to Ommadawn, definitely hasrh haha, however I dont think it should be that much of an issue. If spectate is enable by the game master and is shown that its active, people have the choice to join the room or not. For example, if people really care about people telling them where they are in tdms or in duel rooms lol, they already have the choice to 1. To Disable spectate mode if they are the host of the room or 2. Dont enter the room knowing the option spectate is enabled .

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It's allowed for staff members but that's sort of a non argument. Staff are capable of doing a great many things and not always on a whim. Joining a game to watch everyone is cool and all but there is a huge gateway of abuse if the people spectating can view the game in real time. There needs to be AT LEAST a one minute gap in time so people can't watch their friends TDM and say " He's in the back hallway ", " He's going left " , etc and give callouts based on a spectator experience.

It can only work if there's a delay big enough that spectate cannot be abused, and programming that feature to show the match ~1 minute ago is a giant pain in the ass when it comes to making that work within GunZ. At this point what would be the most effective, a serverside run .GZR file for every game ? It's a really hard problem to implement properly, and it's an extremely abuse-heavy feature if added in as you would like.

Also people do care if they get taken advantage of by some bullshit system unknowingly.

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Originally Posted by Cid

It's allowed for staff members but that's sort of a non argument. Staff are capable of doing a great many things and not always on a whim. Joining a game to watch everyone is cool and all but there is a huge gateway of abuse if the people spectating can view the game in real time. There needs to be AT LEAST a one minute gap in time so people can't watch their friends TDM and say " He's in the back hallway ", " He's going left " , etc and give callouts based on a spectator experience.

It can only work if there's a delay big enough that spectate cannot be abused, and programming that feature to show the match ~1 minute ago is a giant pain in the ass when it comes to making that work within GunZ. At this point what would be the most effective, a serverside run .GZR file for every game ? It's a really hard problem to implement properly, and it's an extremely abuse-heavy feature if added in as you would like.

Also people do care if they get taken advantage of by some bullshit system unknowingly.

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Youre speaking of clan war im assuming because I doubt people will go to that extent to abuse it. Im speaking just in normal public lobbys or duel rooms specifically. And as mentioned to OmmaDawn and rather a point to not join the room or not allowing people to spectate. Youre taking THE EXTREME CASE of abusing it in a god dam public room haha.

All im saying is understand the mindset of most people playing gunz in this day and age. We are all adults just vibing and having fun. Dont want people watching the game your hosting? Disable the spectate feature. Could care less? then Enable it as its that simple. Im not asking to spectate a tournament or CW lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montreal

Youre speaking of clan war im assuming because I doubt people will go to that extent to abuse it. Im speaking just in normal public lobbys or duel rooms specifically. And as mentioned to OmmaDawn and rather a point to not join the room or not allowing people to spectate. Youre taking THE EXTREME CASE of abusing it in a god dam public room haha.

All im saying is understand the mindset of most people playing gunz in this day and age. We are all adults just vibing and having fun. Dont want people watching the game your hosting? Disable the spectate feature. Could care less? then Enable it as its that simple. Im not asking to spectate a tournament or CW lol

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The extreme case? You are extremely naive, GunZ players will cheat in any way possible given the opportunity.

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Originally Posted by Cid

The extreme case? You are extremely naive, GunZ players will cheat in any way possible given the opportunity.

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This is the main reason why there isn't a spectate mode because we know there are people who will abuse it, we know our community :o.o
Hence I suggested something like disabling the chat so you won't be able to leak someone's location/health, I know it's too harsh tho.

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Originally Posted by Cid

The extreme case? You are extremely naive, GunZ players will cheat in any way possible given the opportunity.

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Okay simple solution as I mentioned idk if youre reading my post correctly. Just dont enable the feature? If you dont like it or dont join the room. Youre acting as if someone will intentionally leak a position in a duel or a tdm that would harm the gameplay that badly. Heck if it does or if that person is not liking it he/she has the decision to either leave the room or just never enabling the spectate feaure. Youre not going against my arguement but rather just giving excuse of the issue in which I provided temporaliy solution which is to not enable the feature or not joining the room or in the case of @Ommadawn disabling the chat

Can I tell already that youre against it which is fine, but please say a valid arguement rather throwing out what I said completely or give a solution such as Ommadawn suggested, and lets stay respectful please and thank you!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ommadawn

This is the main reason why there isn't a spectate mode because we know there are people who will abuse it, we know our community :o.o
Hence I suggested something like disabling the chat so you won't be able to leak someone's location/health, I know it's too harsh tho.

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Definitely agree, you know the community but I dont see the issue if you were to just not enabled the feature? Its as simple as not enabling or dont join the room if youre scared about people having to leak your position. And im pretty certain most people will not care about this and will have the feature spectate enabled.

i would like to see this implemented, definitely could be abused, but if you’re going out of your way to hop into vc so that you can give the enemy location in a 16v16 garden room then you’re a straight weirdo and got some problems. i don’t see a lot of people going the extra mile for non-competitive rooms like duel or tdm. but if that really is such a big concern then maybe only make it available in duel, deathmatch and quest

Great idea! Adding a huge time delay + disable chatting + game room option might be all that's needed to have this added without risking abuse from the community. People already give away others positions while playing already, I don't see this causing any addition risk than what's already present.

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Originally Posted by Ommadawn

Hence I suggested something like disabling the chat so you won't be able to leak someone's location/health, I know it's too harsh tho.

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I don't see those limitations being judged as harsh. I think the point of a spectate mode is for those who simply just want to watch. Spectating should be just that, spectating!

"Can I tell already that youre against it which is fine, but please say a valid arguement rather throwing out what I said completely or give a solution such as Ommadawn suggested, and lets stay respectful please and thank you!"

Here's your solution read it again.

There needs to be AT LEAST a one minute gap in time so people can't watch their friends TDM and say " He's in the back hallway ", " He's going left " , etc and give callouts based on a spectator experience.

It can only work if there's a delay big enough that spectate cannot be abused, and programming that feature to show the match ~1 minute ago is a giant pain in the ass when it comes to making that work within GunZ. At this point what would be the most effective, a serverside run .GZR file for every game ? It's a really hard problem to implement properly, and it's an extremely abuse-heavy feature if added in as you would like.


"And im pretty certain most people will not care about this and will have the feature spectate enabled. "

You can be as certain as you want but you are flat out incorrect.

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Originally Posted by Cid

"Can I tell already that youre against it which is fine, but please say a valid arguement rather throwing out what I said completely or give a solution such as Ommadawn suggested, and lets stay respectful please and thank you!"

Here's your solution read it again.

There needs to be AT LEAST a one minute gap in time so people can't watch their friends TDM and say " He's in the back hallway ", " He's going left " , etc and give callouts based on a spectator experience.

It can only work if there's a delay big enough that spectate cannot be abused, and programming that feature to show the match ~1 minute ago is a giant pain in the ass when it comes to making that work within GunZ. At this point what would be the most effective, a serverside run .GZR file for every game ? It's a really hard problem to implement properly, and it's an extremely abuse-heavy feature if added in as you would like.


"And im pretty certain most people will not care about this and will have the feature spectate enabled. "

You can be as certain as you want but you are flat out incorrect.

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I have no idea what youre saying lol. I never mentioned anything about delay or whatsoever. That already just shows that you are not reading what im saying lol or you dont understand english. Your gramma is all over the place and you have yet to mentioned what I said. I dont feel the need to repeat my self anymore please move on and just actually read my post or dont.

Is there something I missed?

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Originally Posted by Cid

Is there something I missed?

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I cant tell if youre being serious or youre trolling me hard :?

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Originally Posted by Montreal

I cant tell if youre being serious or youre trolling me hard :?

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Now there is something we can agree on!

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Originally Posted by Montreal

I cant tell if youre being serious or youre trolling me hard :?

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You asked him for a solution to make your suggestion work and he provided one, i.e. adding a delay when spectating. This mitigates any potential abuse since information seen by spectators have already become irrelevant to the players. I honestly don't understand where you got confused, Cid has been perfectly coherent this whole time.

Unnecessary whiteknighting aside, I like the idea for the exact same reason you do. Sometimes I just wanna chill and watch other people play. That said, I also agree with Omma and Cid. I completely believe GunZ kids will go to the trouble of toggling their OC/UC/macro just so they can trash talk in a training room.

But even then, if two people really wanted to go on VC and leak spots in TDM then they can already do that even with no public spectator option. One person can literally just join the other team and leak spots from there. So yeah honestly I think, with the addition of Bunny's and Omma's ideas, this idea is good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montreal

Suggestion type:
Forum/FGunZ/Other

I know its been suggested many times and it indeed got deny all those times for the sole reason of people wanted it for cw and probably using as an advantage! However , the only reason im suggesting this again, is just for casual play, specifically just normal rooms in the "Main Lobby". I ask this because I personally like watching people play gunz while I work or just to spectate duel rooms , tdm or private rooms while I eat or someshit :P.

Now I know you can still fight against it saying that ppl can still use this as an advantage again. So my counter arguement is just to set it as a setting in the room settings or Custom Game option where you can allow people to specrate or not. Heck theres even a lovely space for it :4 https://i.imgur.com/m5MkRNn.png

And idk maybe for VIP give them access to be able to spectate any room regardless of the option being on or off? Who knows im just sprouting ideas at this point.

In all honestly, I just would like to spectate game rooms just to chill instead of having to rejoin constantly.
What are yall thoughts on this?

Suggestion description:

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Denied? On the contrary it is in the To be added later pile. Interesting solutions of a delay brought up that weren't discussed in the original thread, which are possible solutions to cheating. Although not perfect they seem to get the job done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amamin

You asked him for a solution to make your suggestion work and he provided one, i.e. adding a delay when spectating. This mitigates any potential abuse since information seen by spectators have already become irrelevant to the players. I honestly don't understand where you got confused, Cid has been perfectly coherent this whole time.

Unnecessary whiteknighting aside, I like the idea for the exact same reason you do. Sometimes I just wanna chill and watch other people play. That said, I also agree with Omma and Cid. I completely believe GunZ kids will go to the trouble of toggling their OC/UC/macro just so they can trash talk in a training room.

But even then, if two people really wanted to go on VC and leak spots in TDM then they can already do that even with no public spectator option. One person can literally just join the other team and leak spots from there. So yeah honestly I think, with the addition of Bunny's and Omma's ideas, this idea is good.

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Yet another that didnt do the research or reading before hand. Okay I dont know why its so hard to undersand >.<. Im not asking for any delays. Im not asking to spectate a room with like FREE CAM or anything. If you understand how spectating works in other servers you would know what I mean, however if you never seen it in function before, I will try to explain to my best ability. Its as youre watching someone's perspective of playing , if you were dead in a duel room or tdm. Now there was already PAST threads mentioning a DELAY and I can already tell you that its far too complicated to code (as I am a programmer myself) for such FEATURE.

And as a result, MY SOLUTION , is to have such a feature to spectate a room if you want to ENABLE OR DISABLE in which THE HOST OF THE ROOM HAS the WILLINGNESS of ENABLING or DISABLING the feature and as for users to JOIN the room they have the DECISION of JOINING the room wether it has the feature "SPECTATE" enable or not.

Side note, I have no idea what does OC/UC have to do with spectating? Unless youre talking about watching someone you suspect which is fine? I guess I dont see the issue there. As for macro, I can see where people would spam macros as a spectator and be disruptive, in which case I do support @Ommadawn's idea or just have it where the spectator has their own chat (such as like how teams has their own chat)

Thats my solution @CID and @Amamin. Now if you still dont undestand what im trying to say. We can continue this in a private chat and leave the comments for other solutions or valid arguements.

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Originally Posted by justRelax

Denied? On the contrary it is in the To be added later pile. Interesting solutions of a delay brought up that weren't discussed in the original thread, which are possible solutions to cheating. Although not perfect they seem to get the job done.

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Oh cool I didnt see this haha I mean thanks I guess I just typed the word "spectate" and brought up all the threads that has it on their title.

I already coded this and enabled it by mistake a few updates ago. But it wasn't supposed to be enabled because it wasn't finished so I disabled the feature again. I should finish this feature and re-enable it..

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Originally Posted by McSic

I already coded this and enabled it by mistake a few updates ago. But it wasn't supposed to be enabled because it wasn't finished so I disabled the feature again. I should finish this feature and re-enable it..

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I was very upset when you removed it, I'd like to suggest that spectators name display in tab and can direct kick by room master, adding 20-40sec delay depending on game-mode is use more useful and less cheating.

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Originally Posted by Montreal

And as a result, MY SOLUTION , is to have such a feature to spectate a room if you want to ENABLE OR DISABLE in which THE HOST OF THE ROOM HAS the WILLINGNESS of ENABLING or DISABLING the feature and as for users to JOIN the room they have the DECISION of JOINING the room wether it has the feature "SPECTATE" enable or not.

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Someone already mentioned that if they choose to go this route that the majority of players will just automatically skip over the spectating option due to the fact that it will get abused if they DON'T add a delay. Thus making it a pointless addition as it will most likely not be used much at all.


Also while we're on the topic of addition game room options...can we make it so you can edit those options as room master rather than choosing them before you create the room?...

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Originally Posted by Desecration

Someone already mentioned that if they choose to go this route that the majority of players will just automatically skip over the spectating option due to the fact that it will get abused if they DON'T add a delay. Thus making it a pointless addition as it will most likely not be used much at all.


Also while we're on the topic of addition game room options...can we make it so you can edit those options as room master rather than choosing them before you create the room?...

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Such a bold statement to say "maroity of players" when its only so far you and Cid that are against this. I dont personally see you guys activately play nor cw or care about competitive play so why is it such a bother for you? Anywho thats beside the point, I for the fact can ASSURE you this is not a pointless addition and I can most certainly say with confidence that the people in my clan will love this feature. I dont see the harm of just adding it and see how the community uses it? And if it really pointless they can always remove it.

It just baffles me you really think this feature can harm anyone but hey if youre that really insecure of your health and position in a PUBLIC game room please dont enable this feature, its all im asking and im sure whoever this "majority of people" you say will gladly follow.

At the end of the day, McSic has already added the feature that alone just proves my point lol. Its only matter of time and a single patch.

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Originally Posted by Montreal

Such a bold statement to say "maroity of players" when its only so far you and Cid that are against this. I dont personally see you guys activately play nor cw or care about competitive play so why is it such a bother for you? Anywho thats beside the point, I for the fact can ASSURE you this is not a pointless addition and I can most certainly say with confidence that the people in my clan will love this feature. I dont see the harm of just adding it and see how the community uses it? And if it really pointless they can always remove it.

It just baffles me you really think this feature can harm anyone but hey if youre that really insecure of your health and position in a PUBLIC game room please dont enable this feature, its all im asking and im sure whoever this "majority of people" you say will gladly follow.

At the end of the day, McSic has already added the feature that alone just proves my point lol. Its only matter of time and a single patch.

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...what? I never said I was against this suggestion at all. I'm sure at first everyone creating rooms will all turn this option on. Until it starts to be abused (assuming they DON'T ADD A DELAY). After that, players will slowly stop turning that option on as people are going to just call out in chat.

I'm all for the idea, I even find myself wanting to spectate from time to time. If it's that time consuming to add the minute long delay into it, then they could try releasing without the delay and see what the feedback looks like within a week/month and go from there. Maybe it won't get abused, but I already see players calling out their teams locations when it's just that player alive. So I don't doubt that it'll continue to happen with the addition of spectating.

Also I wasn't aware you were speaking of cwing also....because in your first post you literally say "is just for casual play, specifically just normal rooms in the "Main Lobby" " So not sure why you added in the fact that you don't ever see me clan warring or "caring about competitive play" or even "see you actively playing". :?

I'm not against the idea at all. I'd even love for them to add the option to spectate clan wars (was that a thing in ijji :? ) I'm clearly just stating my concerns about it being added and the potential abuse it can carry with.

But like you said, why not just add it without the delay and asses a week or two from there.