explosive rings placebo effect?

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Originally Posted by McSic

Increased explosion damage of Explosive Grenade / Blast Grenade / Grenadelauncher FG / Grenadelauncher BL by 25%

Stay protected from explosive mayhem! We've introduced the brand new "EX/DMG Ring" to the in-game shop. Equip these rings to reduce explosive damage by 13-25% each. Stack them up to create an even stronger defense against devastating explosions!

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unsure if this intended or an oversight but it really doesn't make sense to introduce even stronger explosives that nullify the introduction of (the strongest) explosive resistant rings on top of them already being lackluster by not providing any hp/ap bonus, meaning you'll already be taking the same damage from explosives that people were complaining about prepatch on top of having a lower health pool.

i am assuming that grenades were buffed because removal of floor/wall interactions but i don't really understand why, people were already complaining about the damage of explosives before this patch and now they're even stronger (blast nades are literally ridiculous right now lol)

this introduced concept of explosive resistant rings. the highest is +25% explosion resistance...which is nullified by the fact explosive damage was buffed by +25%. so realistically, unless you actually bother stacking these rings, you'll be taking the same damage from grenades that already existed (which people were complaining about).

therefore the rings are kind of placebo effect - i can't imagine someone actually bothering to equip 2 of these rings because they don't give you any sort of hp/ap bonus, and that only makes you more prone to dying lol.

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Originally Posted by SunRui

unsure if this intended or an oversight but it really doesn't make sense to introduce even stronger explosives that nullify the introduction of (the strongest) explosive resistant rings on top of them already being lackluster by not providing any hp/ap bonus, meaning you'll already be taking the same damage from explosives that people were complaining about prepatch on top of having a lower health pool.

i am assuming that grenades were buffed because removal of floor/wall interactions but i don't really understand why, people were already complaining about the damage of explosives before this patch and now they're even stronger (blast nades are literally ridiculous right now lol)

this introduced concept of explosive resistant rings. the highest is +25% explosion resistance...which is nullified by the fact explosive damage was buffed by +25%. so realistically, unless you actually bother stacking these rings, you'll be taking the same damage from grenades that already existed (which people were complaining about).

therefore the rings are kind of placebo effect - i can't imagine someone actually bothering to equip 2 of these rings because they don't give you any sort of hp/ap bonus, and that only makes you more prone to dying lol.

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Why wouldn't people equip 2 of these rings? An almost 50% reduction of explosive damage is pretty strong if there's a lot of explosives being used in a room. People can equip and unequip those however they see fit. When equipping both rings, you trade 14 HP 14 AP for almost 50% less explosion damage, which is preeeeeetty strong if you think about it.

Increased explosion damage on direct hits while decreased damage through walls (and nullified through floors) encourages direct hits (and only makes them equal to their old status/strength against someone wearing an ex/dmg ring when doing those direct hits) whereas they're significantly less useful when the enemy is standing behind a wall / around a corner / on a different floor or wears a second ring. So I wouldn't call it placebo.

On a side note, 1 hit and 2 hit nades weren't buffed, they've only received nerfs (ex/dmg rings, wall damage reduction, floor damage reduction), and those were the ones people complained about the most prior to this patch.

Blast grenades could be OP right now due to their high damage in combination with instant explosion, making it very easy to land direct hits, will need to hear some more opinions.

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Originally Posted by McSic

Why wouldn't people equip 2 of these rings? An almost 50% reduction of explosive damage is pretty strong if there's a lot of explosives being used in a room. People can equip and unequip those however they see fit. When equipping both rings, you trade 14 HP 14 AP for almost 50% less explosion damage.

Increased explosion damage on direct hits while decreased damage through walls (and nullified through floors) encourages direct hits (and only makes them equal to their old status/strength against someone wearing an ex/dmg ring when doing those direct hits) whereas they're significantly less useful when the enemy is standing behind a wall / around a corner / on a different floor. So I wouldn't call it placebo.

On a side note, 1 hit and 2 hit nades weren't buffed, they've only received nerfs (ex/dmg rings, wall damage reduction, floor damage reduction), and those were the ones people complained about the most prior to this patch.

Blast grenades could be OP right now due to their high damage in combination with instant explosion, making it very easy to land direct hits, will need to hear some more opinions.

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i agree with your points, i just don't see the value in stacking these (where they'll really only be used) into a garden TDM or mansion AnD where practically everyone = equipped with sprays or 11/12 damage shotguns which will 2-3 shot you regardless at 260 HP.

i haven't seen many complaints about 1/2 hit nades (and i use them), ive mostly seen complaints ingame regarding molotovs, mines, and flamethrowers so i was unaware those 2 nades were the problem in particular.

anyway, i just used the lvl 80 exp res rings stacked ingame and they personally didn't feel too noticeable vs 3 players using blast nades, i was still half health after 2 nades but at the same time i was dying too fast to other people shooting me as well lol.

trying 2 stacked lvl 80 rings in a training room on both myself and a bot, i think the % might be off. i had 260 total hp, threw 2 blast nades (200/2=100) which should be 160totalhp and ended up at 95/52, 147 total hp. it took a total of 5 nades to kill me when it should take 6. 5x50=250, less than 260. 6x50=300.

i think they're OK on paper but won't see much actual use. personally i am not gonna touch these again; maybe if they had another bonus where you're immune to your own explosive damage or something i would revisit them but currently i just don't see the point in taking them over regular rings that give you a bigger health pool.

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Originally Posted by SunRui

maybe if they had another bonus where you're immune to your own explosive damage or something

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this would be great. And I also think their res should be about 40-45%. So 80-90% when stacked. Other options could be explored too like giving the player res/immunity to being stunned by mines, stun nades, etc..

even with 2 donor rings you get 2 shotted by SSH sgs (they shouldn't exist). Sacrificing so much HP/AP in the current state of the game should give you quite the benefit in return, and 50% ex. DMG RES isn't it

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Originally Posted by SunRui

trying 2 stacked lvl 80 rings in a training room on both myself and a bot, i think the % might be off. i had 260 total hp, threw 2 blast nades (200/2=100) which should be 160totalhp and ended up at 95/52, 147 total hp. it took a total of 5 nades to kill me when it should take 6. 5x50=250, less than 260. 6x50=300.

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That's because every reduction is applied after the other reduction, so when stacked the math is damage * 0.75 * 0.75, not damage * 0.5.

Decreased blast grenade damage to 90 in the latest update.

The OP thing about blast grenades is they deal full damage in the entire radius. If the damage scaled based on distance from center of explosion (like normal nades) it wouldn't be so bad

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Originally Posted by mrguy

The OP thing about blast grenades is they deal full damage in the entire radius. If the damage scaled based on distance from center of explosion (like normal nades) it wouldn't be so bad

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Good point, that shouldn't be happening, sounds like a bug we need to take care of.

Edit: Fixed in next update.

Haven't played much since the updates rolled out. But I heard that the EX rings only work against certain explosives? Like they don't reduce against flamethrower, mines, etc? Haven't tested, but I'd love for the EX rings to at least reduce damage against ALL explosives. If the item in question can NOT be used in an EX room, then EX rings should reduce their damage.

Didn't realize the buff in nades. It does seem kind of "neutralized". In the sense that the extra damage given to the nades basically equals out to the reduction from the rings lol. I tried double stacking the EX rooms in an A&D where the majority of players were using explosives and didn't see much of a difference?