Anti-lead?

Firstly I do not think in any shape or form that the user displayed in this video is unlegit. (Sonnenblume)

This could be an issue from myside or an issue with the anti-lead in general who knows, however it's been an apparent problem I've come to establish whilst playing, if it be sometimes recieving damage or if it be giving damage.

This video is a 'example' of what I mean in terms of giving damage.

https://youtu.be/jG8V_VFja8k


Also can anyone recolour this crosshair for me?

http://i66.tinypic.com/9bapsw.jpg

^^

Red / Yellow / Pink / Purple / Light blue.

Mucho gracias.

I've had the same problem for atleast 7 months. I even made a post about it. They said they are gonna probably fix it in V8..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzVvjxy8byI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8mGZk5Khpc

Here's some of my clips. I've got alot more on my replays but not in the mood to upload every single one of them.

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Originally Posted by Sunfire

I've had the same problem for atleast 7 months. I even made a post about it. They said they are gonna probably fix it in V8..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzVvjxy8byI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8mGZk5Khpc

Here's some of my clips. I've got alot more on my replays but not in the mood to upload every single one of them.

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How annoying, people must be getting accused for days when shit like this happens. Atleast it's a known issue though.

Yeah, yesterday I pb'd someone 3 times (i hit him more times, but from a farther distance) and it only registered 69 dmg, it was really ****ing close at red spawn, Garden. So about 5 hits in all, 3pbs does 69 dmg? :?

anti-lead is fine here try rejoinr oom if it happens again

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Originally Posted by Sunfire

I've had the same problem for atleast 7 months. I even made a post about it. They said they are gonna probably fix it in V8..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzVvjxy8byI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8mGZk5Khpc

Here's some of my clips. I've got alot more on my replays but not in the mood to upload every single one of them.

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Bruh those shots aren't enough to kill. Hoodlum's ones are though

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Originally Posted by Akimbo

Bruh those shots aren't enough to kill. Hoodlum's ones are though

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First replay: shots are clearly enough to kill him. After first 2 shots he should've been red and next close shot should've killed him. Both PBs are with Limit Breaker (first and 3rd shot)

Second replay is a showcase of how much damage my shots did. You can clearly see full PBs (after his groundslash watch my hits) and his HP barely moved. Ofc the shots i did weren't enough to kill him but they were enough to make him red or close to death but ends up being LB-low AP.

If you think this is ok then dunno man, you need to hit your head to wall or smth cuz that's definitely not fine

yeh
reg got banned because of this antilead
they thought its daamge reduce rofl

wow so dmg reduce doesnt really exist? lmao

port forward and disable nagling

I got banned for this weird thing too -.- never even had this kind of issues in the past and suddenly I can't damage people and people can't damage me.

That's what I've been saying, but someone not going to mention his name thinks Fgunz is all that perfect lmfao sorry bro, but it's not and lart and cleave got banned for no goddamn reason great server even though I didn't get banned it irritates me lol because it's so unprofessional.

Free lart 2017 - Wrongfully banned (dave do you even care about about fgunz)

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Originally Posted by Sunfire

I've had the same problem for atleast 7 months. I even made a post about it. They said they are gonna probably fix it in V8..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzVvjxy8byI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8mGZk5Khpc

Here's some of my clips. I've got alot more on my replays but not in the mood to upload every single one of them.

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They're gonna fix it? So they know there is an issue yet they decide to ban other people for dmgreduce? Makes a lot of sense, luckily I don't have such a problem, but it seems a lot of people do.

lart was unlegit lol, he used to message me asking me if i wanted dmg reduce and sht.

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Originally Posted by Skull

lart was unlegit lol, he used to message me asking me if i wanted dmg reduce and sht.

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proof or it didnt happen

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Originally Posted by GHBalo

proof or it didnt happen

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ride me D:

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Originally Posted by Skull

lart was unlegit lol, he used to message me asking me if i wanted dmg reduce and sht.

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LOL mate i thought its the other way around? I don't even know you tbh.

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Originally Posted by Sunfire

I've had the same problem for atleast 7 months. I even made a post about it. They said they are gonna probably fix it in V8..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzVvjxy8byI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8mGZk5Khpc

Here's some of my clips. I've got alot more on my replays but not in the mood to upload every single one of them.

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Not commenting to be a **** because I don't know how accurate my assumption is, but you can see in the video that sometimes you have very few pellets landing on the opponent, and that the shots where you do have a significant amount of pellets landing, do some damage.

Even that second PB where he was slashing, your crosshair did go slightly off to the left side of his body, and it looked like the spread unfortunately didn't work out for you.

As for the first guy, he doesn't have bullet markers enabled so we can't really even see how many pellets are landing.

Basically...

I think the RNG spread for shotguns is being confounded for bad hit detection sometimes. I'm not arguing that the anti-lead doesn't need work, but it's impossible to be sure which is the case in these videos. My argument in regards to this is my (somewhat) extensive use of revolvers. I have NEVER had a revolver register a hit-sound and had it do no damage. That is because each bullet of the revolver does X amount of damage and when a hit registers it's doing the full potential of at least one of the 2 bullets. Similarly, with a shotgun if just one of the many pellets lands, you will still get a hit-sound. I have rounds where I use shotguns and I will get all-hit rounds (all 12 hits register with the sound), but the opponent will have a significant amount of health left. I have noticed though that the random spread is sometimes to blame for this, or just my aim being slightly off to the side and having not enough pellets register on shots that are up closer.

The obvious fix to this (IMHO) would be to remove the RNG spread from shotguns, for a static circular bullet spread, and potentially reducing the damage of shotguns to compensate for the more consistent damage. It would definitely remove a lot of the luck-based aspects like where sometimes someone "PBs" you from across the map, because of lucky spread for that specific shot. Or shots where your aim is perfect but the spread works out in a weird pattern that makes you do shit damage.

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Originally Posted by MeMyselfandI

Not commenting to be a **** because I don't know how accurate my assumption is, but you can see in the video that sometimes you have very few pellets landing on the opponent, and that the shots where you do have a significant amount of pellets landing, do some damage.

Even that second PB where he was slashing, your crosshair did go slightly off to the left side of his body, and it looked like the spread unfortunately didn't work out for you.

As for the first guy, he doesn't have bullet markers enabled so we can't really even see how many pellets are landing.

Basically...

I think the RNG spread for shotguns is being confounded for bad hit detection sometimes. I'm not arguing that the anti-lead doesn't need work, but it's impossible to be sure which is the case in these videos. My argument in regards to this is my (somewhat) extensive use of revolvers. I have NEVER had a revolver register a hit-sound and had it do no damage. That is because each bullet of the revolver does X amount of damage and when a hit registers it's doing the full potential of at least one of the 2 bullets. Similarly, with a shotgun if just one of the many pellets lands, you will still get a hit-sound. I have rounds where I use shotguns and I will get all-hit rounds (all 12 hits register with the sound), but the opponent will have a significant amount of health left. I have noticed though that the random spread is sometimes to blame for this, or just my aim being slightly off to the side and having not enough pellets register on shots that are up closer.

The obvious fix to this (IMHO) would be to remove the RNG spread from shotguns, for a static circular bullet spread, and potentially reducing the damage of shotguns to compensate for the more consistent damage. It would definitely remove a lot of the luck-based aspects like where sometimes someone "PBs" you from across the map, because of lucky spread for that specific shot. Or shots where your aim is perfect but the spread works out in a weird pattern that makes you do shit damage.

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Just wanna throw out there pellet spread is client based therefore if you viewed a recording > to me viewing a recording the spread could appear differently. Basically meaning when he recorded that moment with F11 and re-recorded over it the spread could have been different at that specific moment in time, that why pellet spread can't really be used to determine if shots are actually PB's or not.

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Originally Posted by Hoodlum

Just wanna throw out there pellet spread is client based therefore if you viewed a recording > to me viewing a recording the spread could appear differently. Basically meaning when he recorded that moment with F11 and re-recorded over it the spread could have been different at that specific moment in time, that why pellet spread can't really be used to determine if shots are actually PB's or not.

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My argument still stands though, there's no way to verify how many pellets they are landing, so you can't know if it's the hit detection or the RNG spread causing low damage per shot.

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Originally Posted by MeMyselfandI

My argument still stands though, there's no way to verify how many pellets they are landing, so you can't know if it's the hit detection or the RNG spread causing low damage per shot.

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I get what you mean, here I took this aswell...

https://youtu.be/oNrvXfLqht0

Yes you see the pellet spread not hit me. His replay may appear differently due to ping difference however the 'Hit' indicator/sound are both there but I recieved 0 damage, so for me there's an issue somewhere because if on his end the spread does hit me and had both the indicators to say he had hit, but yet I took 0 damage I could be accused for hacking.

I would've believed its the anti lead if it was 2-3 years ago, because I knew about the issue beforehand, for instance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM0IGS8dPuU

3 years ago^, people nowadays need 4-5 shots from that range to kill while I take that many to kill 1 person (its an all hit replay but my friend kees recorded it for me so 2 hits didn't register as hits)

This was on a test server made by Rain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA6pPEXo39A

Anti lead was MUCH better and forgiving for when you miss shots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjY5io0N-Z8
2 years ago^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjY5io0N-Z8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O93C4jTTQn8

BEST OF THEM ALL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Gid1l0bMI

I believe there is a Damage reduce hack going around and its not the anti lead's fault, go back 2-3 years ago and you will REALLY understand what it means to have a garbage anti lead.

Rain's test server AGAIN had a flawless anti-lead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdFw7igXQ74

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Originally Posted by Taint

I would've believed its the anti lead if it was 2-3 years ago, because I knew about the issue beforehand, for instance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM0IGS8dPuU

3 years ago^, people nowadays need 4-5 shots from that range to kill while I take that many to kill 1 person (its an all hit replay but my friend kees recorded it for me so 2 hits didn't register as hits)

This was on a test server made by Rain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA6pPEXo39A

Anti lead was MUCH better and forgiving for when you miss shots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjY5io0N-Z8
2 years ago^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjY5io0N-Z8

BEST OF THEM ALL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6Gid1l0bMI

I believe there is a Damage reduce hack going around and its not the anti lead's fault, go back 2-3 years ago and you will REALLY understand what it means to have a garbage anti lead.

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So what you're saying if I report the user in my first video he will be banned. If the user reported me in the video I just posted, I will be banned?

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Originally Posted by Hoodlum

I get what you mean, here I took this aswell...

https://youtu.be/oNrvXfLqht0

Yes you see the pellet spread not hit me. His replay may appear differently due to ping difference however the 'Hit' indicator/sound are both there but I recieved 0 damage, so for me there's an issue somewhere because if on his end the spread does hit me and had both the indicators to say he had hit, but yet I took 0 damage I could be accused for hacking.

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I'm not an expert when it comes to replays, but like that guy said spread is randomly generated in replays. Also that looked like really weird timing matching the tumble when you shot, it might be an invincibility frame or something. Furthermore, aside from bad net resulting in packet loss, I don't see any way for it to fail in technical terms. Like I stated, when I used revolvers for months, I have NEVER gotten a false-positive shot. If the anti-lead was really broken surely one of my "hits" wouldn't have registered.

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Originally Posted by Hoodlum

So what you're saying if I report the user in my first video he will be banned. If the user reported me in the video I just posted, I will be banned?

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Not entirely, I do believe there are MOMENTS and only moments when the anti lead fks up and its not very often, RARELY does it ever happen and I've spoken with the admins and they said there aren't any hiccups going on or the connection being interrupted, either damage reduce or one's connection is weak (highly doubt that btw)

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Originally Posted by Taint

Not entirely, I do believe there are MOMENTS and only moments when the anti lead fks up and its not very often, RARELY does it ever happen and I've spoken with the admins and they said there aren't any hiccups going on or the connection being interrupted, either damage reduce or one's connection is weak (highly doubt that btw)

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This is basically my argument. Maybe in scenarios where someone's internet is shitty could packets not be sent correctly. Otherwise it's a hack that's intentionally packet blocking, or the spread misleads people into thinking they're doing more damage than they are.

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Originally Posted by MeMyselfandI

This is basically my argument. Maybe in scenarios where someone's internet is shitty could packets not be sent correctly. Otherwise it's a hack that's intentionally packet blocking, or the spread misleads people into thinking they're doing more damage than they are.

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Low and behold there is a scumbug who made that btw and it forces packet dropping, in any case I don't believe the anti lead is faulty atm, I think its fine the way it is unless the admins say otherwise.

hows the antilead is fking fine?
when there is like 10 threads talking about antilead sucks
and u are saying its fine

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Originally Posted by GHBalo

hows the antilead is fking fine?
when there is like 10 threads talking about antilead sucks
and u are saying its fine

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You were banned for shotbotting, YOU of all people would not experience any issues when you're hitting balls hard my friend ;)

Replays - All they do is record the direction the gun was pointed when shot, they don't record every pellets direction. The hit marker in a replay is not based off the original recording but off of regenerated spread each time you play it back. If you really want to find the issue you need to start doing live recordings with OBS or XSplit or some other application and keep the bullet effects on. Someone had a twitch recording and that was the only reason i was able to find a very rare case of when a shot wouldn't register, but that was only for 1 very specific case which these do not appear to have.

There is hack that exploits the anti-lead that Taint mentioned, which is fixed in V8.

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Originally Posted by Taint

You were banned for shotbotting, YOU of all people would not experience any issues when you're hitting balls hard my friend ;)

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it wasnt me who get banned for shotbotting lmao

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Originally Posted by S1lent

Replays - All they do is record the direction the gun was pointed when shot, they don't record every pellets direction. The hit marker in a replay is not based off the original recording but off of regenerated spread each time you play it back. If you really want to find the issue you need to start doing live recordings with OBS or XSplit or some other application and keep the bullet effects on. Someone had a twitch recording and that was the only reason i was able to find a very rare case of when a shot wouldn't register, but that was only for 1 very specific case which these do not appear to have.

There is hack that exploits the anti-lead that Taint mentioned, which is fixed in V8.

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I'm not banned for the issue of damage reducing, so I'm just exploring the possibilites of what I experienced in the youtube video I presented, does that mean when a GM is investigating the accusation of 'Damage reducing', they aren't getting an accurate view since the recording aren't a live feed to know if the user actually presented a shot of a substational amount of damage? I ran a tracert of my connection and find I get a packet drop here;

https://i.imgur.com/sFEuSBr.png

Indicated by the (*)

Dude wtf wrong with mods -.-
I know reg personally he’s LEGIT!!

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Originally Posted by Skull

Dude wtf wrong with mods -.-
I know reg personally he’s LEGIT!!

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and pigs can fly at some point in their lives

As silent said, the hit indicator isn't from the actual recording guys, the function that handles spread generates that new even in recordings. It's possible I may change that in the future.

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Originally Posted by Hoodlum

So what you're saying if I report the user in my first video he will be banned. If the user reported me in the video I just posted, I will be banned?

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nice reply hoodlum very smart.... looks like taint need to review some of the players he had banned

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by Lart

I got banned for this weird thing too -.- never even had this kind of issues in the past and suddenly I can't damage people and people can't damage me.

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even cleave got banned right? try to appeal on dave.. maybe he can help you bro.

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Originally Posted by S1lent

There is hack that exploits the anti-lead that Taint mentioned, which is fixed in V8.

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Originally Posted by TylerDurden

nice reply hoodlum very smart.... looks like taint need to review some of the players he had banned

- - - Updated - - -



even cleave got banned right? try to appeal on dave.. maybe he can help you bro.

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You aren't the smart one in your family now, are you?

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Originally Posted by Hoodlum

Firstly I do not think in any shape or form that the user displayed in this video is unlegit. (Sonnenblume)

This could be an issue from myside or an issue with the anti-lead in general who knows, however it's been an apparent problem I've come to establish whilst playing, if it be sometimes recieving damage or if it be giving damage.

This video is a 'example' of what I mean in terms of giving damage.

https://youtu.be/jG8V_VFja8k


Also can anyone recolour this crosshair for me?

http://i66.tinypic.com/9bapsw.jpg

^^

Red / Yellow / Pink / Purple / Light blue.

Mucho gracias.

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You should call it DMG reduce not anti-lead issues.
The hack you are using Hoodlum.

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Originally Posted by Shainette

You should call it DMG reduce not anti-lead issues.
The hack you are using Hoodlum.

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I'm not sure if you're being serious or not?

just because there are anti-lead issues sometimes doesnt mean than some players didn't DMG reduce...Dont be stupid now

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Originally Posted by Sunfire

just because there are anti-lead issues sometimes doesnt mean than some players didn't DMG reduce...Dont be stupid now

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Don't get me wrong I'm not excusing it from not being a thing, I mean GunZ has developed ALOT since the last time I played actively (ijji), back then UC/OC were the main 'competitive hack' in terms of trying to come across legit when in fact it's not, but the idea of that some times Anti-lead is at fault or if not the Anti-Lead then a players connection to the server, expecially when a player is using a wireless network since it can 'encourage' packet drops not only in receiving but also sending packets, which is why the video I first posted was not a report but more of an observation to what I came across, this could have been an issue from my side / this could have been an issue from my opponents side / user could have been hacking however it was not consistantly happening since it was 1 out of 5 rounds where it was apparent during the duel.

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Originally Posted by Hoodlum

Don't get me wrong I'm not excusing it from not being a thing, I mean GunZ has developed ALOT since the last time I played actively (ijji), back then UC/OC were the main 'competitive hack' in terms of trying to come across legit when in fact it's not, but the idea of that some times Anti-lead is at fault or if not the Anti-Lead then a players connection to the server, expecially when a player is using a wireless network since it can 'encourage' packet drops not only in receiving but also sending packets, which is why the video I first posted was not a report but more of an observation to what I came across, this could have been an issue from my side / this could have been an issue from my opponents side / user could have been hacking however it was not consistantly happening since it was 1 out of 5 rounds where it was apparent during the duel.

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As was pointed out though, this was just a recording of a replay, right? The developers verified that the pellet spread is randomly generated for each replay so there's literally NO way to see how much (if any) of your shots should have been doing more damage than they were. You would have to literally stream the game and use that as a recording to be able to accurately count pellet hits. Remember, you don't even get a single guaranteed pellet centered after a certain distance.

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Originally Posted by MeMyselfandI

As was pointed out though, this was just a recording of a replay, right? The developers verified that the pellet spread is randomly generated for each replay so there's literally NO way to see how much (if any) of your shots should have been doing more damage than they were. You would have to literally stream the game and use that as a recording to be able to accurately count pellet hits. Remember, you don't even get a single guaranteed pellet centered after a certain distance.

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I fully understand that, so that would mean when it comes to reports of players 'damage reducing' they can't be accuratly measured since if X GM watches a replay and see's 8 pellets hits with a 9 dmg shotgun but only 45 damage is dealt instead of 72 damage then there's going to be a issue, expecially then since another GM can watch the same replay however and sees that only 5 pellets had hit meaning the 45 damage was indeed accurate... Even more so the player reported gets banned, reviews the replay he's banned for and calls GM's into question about what they are seeing because from his perspective of pellets hitting he doesn't see it and let's be honest it's the GM way or no way.

not bumping a fossil thread just helping out, uh try port forwarding maybe?? or tcp/nagle options. google is your sidekick here.

old school players put [LEAD] tag on and watch everyone else struggle, I have a hard time not leading