Vials/pills balancing

This is talking about how the BEST pills and vials should be balanced, I'm assuming donor vials/pills are coming soon so this is what they should look like.

Current pills: 5 clip x 15 HP/AP, 2000 delay. MAX HEAL 75
Current vials: 5 clip x 15 HP/AP (3 HP/AP per second for 5 seconds), 2000 delay. MAX HEAL 75

Pills are extremely weak right now due to the fact that you cannot spam them, you can't heal fast enough, and vials are trash as they simply heal too little.

What I'd like to propose is this:
Pills: 6 clip x 15 HP/AP, 1000 delay. MAX HEAL 90
Vials: 4 clip x 30 HP/AP (6 HP/AP per second for 5 seconds), 1000 delay. MAX HEAL 120

This would make pills/vials actually fun to play with, without overpowering meds, though meds shouldn't be compared to pills/vials. Players should be able to choose what they want to play with, there should be players who prefer meds, and players who prefer pills/vials. Neither are better than one another.

Advantages of meds: instant recovery, big heal, fast heal
Disadvantages of meds: need of safe place to heal

Advantages of pills: instant recovery, fast heal, can easily use while on the run
Disadvantages of pills: small heal

Advantages of vials: big heal, can easily use while on the run, can use to rush opponents, recovery while doing different actions
Disadvantages of vials: slow recovery, slow heal, can't really do much if you get rushed by someone while trying to recover

I added a simple poll to help the admins make a decision on this suggestion.

The above is a reason FOR change,

Therefore, people who vote NO should be able to explain in detail why you think the curret stats for vials/pills is fine as it is, if not I don't see why we should take your vote seriously. Could be people who've not even tried it voting for all we know.

1000 delay on vials doesn't make sense since you can't stack them afaik. So you're just wasting by spamming them. Also iirc you can't have the HP + AP buff at the same time for vials. I could be wrong though.

I also believe Pills should have a slightly higher delay than meds because, if you compare meds to pills, meds do take longer to heal although both are 1000 delay, as you have to drop it and then you have to pick it up which takes quite some time, while pills heal instantly.

And with this high heal over 5 seconds I believe vials could become a real problem because players will pop them as soon as the fight begins / shortly before the fight to boost their health by 30 over the fight duration of 5 seconds, and if necessary, pop another one for the next boost and to continue fighting. I kinda see an issue here, not to forget it's a huge change in meta and not sure if players enjoy that.

In my honest opinion with these stats, Pills and Vials would definitely draw meds useless because you don't need a break to heal and can continue to chase the enemy, not giving him the break he needs to pop his regular meds and heal. Drawing meds absolutely useless because people just won't get the chance to use them anymore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skilly

Current pills: 5 clip x 15 HP/AP, 2000 delay. MAX HEAL 75
Current vials: 5 clip x 15 HP/AP (3 HP/AP per second for 5 seconds), 2000 delay. MAX HEAL 75

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I would only change the HP/AP per second from 3 to 4, so max heal is 80 instead so it rewards you a little bit more because vials are heal over time.

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Originally Posted by McSic

1000 delay on vials doesn't make sense since you can't stack them afaik. So you're just wasting by spamming them. Also iirc you can't have the HP + AP buff at the same time for vials. I could be wrong though.

I also believe Pills should have a slightly higher delay than meds because, if you compare meds to pills, meds do take longer to heal although both are 1000 delay, as you have to drop it and then you have to pick it up which takes quite some time, while pills heal instantly.

And with this high heal over 5 seconds I believe vials could become a real problem because players will pop them as soon as the fight begins / shortly before the fight to boost their health by 30 over the fight duration of 5 seconds, and if necessary, pop another one for the next boost and to continue fighting. I kinda see an issue here, not to forget it's a huge change in meta and not sure if players enjoy that.

In my honest opinion with these stats, Pills and Vials would definitely draw meds useless because you don't need a break to heal and can continue to chase the enemy, not giving him the break he needs to pop his regular meds and heal. Drawing meds absolutely useless because people just won't get the chance to use them anymore.

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Cws Will becomes like the other server. A team of2,3,4 rushing you with vials and pills. Decrease the delay, yes. But the stats their asking for resemble the other server for starters. Fg did gunz a favor by staying away from vials years ago. Especially with the donor vials??? 25 hp vials and 10 ap for 10 seconds at a time per vial??? (Still had mine from the old days) that was op as ****. So no. I don’t suggest changing the hp/ap stats of the current vials. Decrease the delay, I do stand for.

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Originally Posted by Avenge

25 hp vials and 10 ap for 10 seconds at a time per vial??? (Still had mine from the old days) that was op as ****. So no. I don’t suggest changing the hp/ap stats of the current vials. Decrease the delay, I do stand for.

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If you read the thread you'd know that it's not what it's asking for. The stats that are described is what the donor stats should ideally be

Quote:

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Originally Posted by McSic

1000 delay on vials doesn't make sense since you can't stack them afaik. So you're just wasting by spamming them. Also iirc you can't have the HP + AP buff at the same time for vials. I could be wrong though.

I also believe Pills should have a slightly higher delay than meds because, if you compare meds to pills, meds do take longer to heal although both are 1000 delay, as you have to drop it and then you have to pick it up which takes quite some time, while pills heal instantly.

And with this high heal over 5 seconds I believe vials could become a real problem because players will pop them as soon as the fight begins / shortly before the fight to boost their health by 30 over the fight duration of 5 seconds, and if necessary, pop another one for the next boost and to continue fighting. I kinda see an issue here, not to forget it's a huge change in meta and not sure if players enjoy that.

In my honest opinion with these stats, Pills and Vials would definitely draw meds useless because you don't need a break to heal and can continue to chase the enemy, not giving him the break he needs to pop his regular meds and heal. Drawing meds absolutely useless because people just won't get the chance to use them anymore.

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Vials can have higher delay, that's true, it doesn't really matter on those. 4k delay might be good so you don't waste so much but can still reactivate before the effect runs out.

People don't use meds by standing still and clicking, they quickly switch meds while walking and I'm pretty sure it's way quicker than 1K. You can probably drop 2 meds before 1 even reaches the ground, so the heal is way quicker than pills once you actually start healing (heck 1K delay for pills is still too slow, I'm pretty sure it was even lower back then lol, I think it was like 200).

That is the point of vials, keep in mind much of the heal is wasted, because people pop them before the fight, you are basically gambling a vial usage for whether you get hit or not. You can obviously use them after you get hit too, but it's not gonna magically save you from death with 6 AP a second.

The idea of pills and vials is to support a rushing play-style. If you guys are worried about these stats overpowering meds then nerf them, but don't nerf the delays, that's what makes or breaks the item. Reduce the heal, to say 25 on vials, and 12 on pills.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skilly

Vials can have higher delay, that's true, it doesn't really matter on those. 4k delay might be good so you don't waste so much but can still reactivate before the effect runs out.

People don't use meds by standing still and clicking, they quickly switch meds while walking and I'm pretty sure it's way quicker than 1K. You can probably drop 2 meds before 1 even reaches the ground, so the heal is way quicker than pills once you actually start healing (heck 1K delay for pills is still too slow, I'm pretty sure it was even lower back then lol, I think it was like 200).

That is the point of vials, keep in mind much of the heal is wasted, because people pop them before the fight, you are basically gambling a vial usage for whether you get hit or not. You can obviously use them after you get hit too, but it's not gonna magically save you from death with 6 AP a second.

The idea of pills and vials is to support a rushing play-style. If you guys are worried about these stats overpowering meds then nerf them, but don't nerf the delays, that's what makes or breaks the item. Reduce the heal, to say 25 on vials, and 12 on pills.

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I agree that vials feel too weak right now. Just tried using them ingame.

We'll do some testing and figure it out from there. Feedback is always welcome.

Lower the delay to 1000

no .

^ I second this... no .

Meds are extremely underrated and super viable in all situations. after further testing and more to come. I have 2 thoughts.

1st meds heal more than pills and vials.
pills delay reduced significantly. increase clip size. 75hp/ap
vials clip size reduced and increase hp/ap per second. 75hp/ap.
buffing like this can quickly make pills and vials broken.

2nd same but equal.
change 15hp/15ap healing on all pills vials too 20hp/20ap.
make pills and med same speed. we will have to find out how long it takes dropping a med to picking it up.
vials feel a little under tuned right now. boosting healing a bit may fix this.

This being said itd be nice to have viable options with pills, vials and their donation counterparts.

i feel ppl underestimate meds so heres some "Pros" for Meds:

great heal
heal team mates
bait enemies
can be dropped while fighting
medding can easily be done when your reloading