[WIP] Shotgun Balance Proposal

Disclaimer: I DID NOT GO INGAME TO SEE WHAT CURRENT SHOTGUNS WE GOT, I KNOW WE USE ALL THE STANDARD AND A FEW RANDOM THINGS.
I ONLY LOOKED AT THE WEBSITE FOR THE DONATION ONES, LET ME KNOW IF I MISSED A SHOTGUN.
Still a work in progress, leave a comment behind about the balance proposal I have (serious input please).
When I update stats I will highlight them in yellow so you can see the changed I made over the course of time, I will give this thread till the end of the month before making a suggestion thread.

@Forum Moderators: you know what to do with the monkeys that do not take this serious/do not understand this.

Original game stats

Quote:

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Copy of 1.5 shotgun stats of GunZ: the duel files I obtained.
Just scroll below if you only care about my proposal.
If you do not understand this format, just log out and never come back.

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Original SHOP (FREE)

ID	Name	Level	Weight	Delay	Damage	Control	Magazine	Max. Bullets
6001	Breaker 3	5	15	1100	6	60	3	15
6002	Breaker 5	10	18	1000	6	60	5	25
6003	Breaker 6	15	20	1000	7	60	5	25
6004	Breaker 7	30	20	1000	8	60	5	25
6005	Avenger	30	15	1200	10	100	2	10
6006	Breaker 8	45	20	1000	9	60	5	25
6007	Avenger MK.II	45	16	1200	11	100	2	10
6008	Breaker 9P	60	18	1000	9	60	5	25

Lucky Box (GAMBLE)

ID	Name	Level	Weight	Delay	Damage	Control	Magazine	Max. Bullets	Box Type
6009	Iron Crow Shotgun Limited	15	18	900	7	60	5	25	Green
6010	Cruelizon Limited	24	18	1100	9	90	5	25	Gold
509006	Breaker 9se	50	18	1000	9	60	5	25	Gold

Original SHOP (PREMIUM)

ID	Name	Level	Weight	Delay	Damage	Control	Magazine	Max. Bullets
506001	Iris Shotgun	7	18	1100	7	60	5	25
506002	Iron Crow Shotgun	15	18	900	7	60	5	25
506003	Biggie Shotgun	7	16	1200	7	80	5	25
506004	Cruelizon	24	18	1100	9	90	5	25
506005	Pioneer	40	18	1000	9	70	6	30
506006	Arquebus	40	15	1100	11	80	2	10
506007	Red Arquebus	40	16	1100	11	100	3	15
506008	Storm Bringer	25	24	1100	10	90	4	20
506009	Adventurer Shotgun	1	18	1100	6	90	5	25
506010	A-3	40	12	1100	10	90	3	15
506011	Thor	25	16	1000	8	90	6	30

Quest Drop

ID	Name	Level	Weight	Delay	Damage	Control	Magazine	Max. Bullets
400513	Shattered Iron	30	20	600	6	70	8	40

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The balance proposal

Quote:

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I did the following:

• The gamble items are a copy of their original item but a different skin (this means you can have "two of the same shotguns at a certain lvl (70 & 80), sort of like how donation shotguns work with I & II
• Balanced the donation shotguns based of tier 9 with no lvl requirement with a few other things (so they are basically lvl skippers where you pay for, but you can achieve the same in the game if you hit lvl 90+)
• lvl 90 should be equal to 100 coin shotguns
• Added a few harder hitting but lower ammo shotguns like the Avenger (the PB monsters)
• Most of the stats are still original so the weight and some stats seem wonky but it balances out based on delay, weight and damage
• Event shotguns are equal to lvl 95 weapon but with 5 less weight and no level requirement
• Can always leave out custom shit items so there is more space around levels
• If this is good the other weapons could get the same treatment

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ID	Name	Level	Weight	Delay	Damage	Control	Magazine	Max. Bullets	Type
6001	Breaker 3	5	15	1100	6	60	3	15	Bounty
6002	Breaker 5	10	18	1000	6	60	5	25	Bounty
6003	Breaker 6	15	20	1000	7	60	5	25	Bounty
6004	Breaker 7	20	20	1000	8	60	5	25	Bounty
6005	Avenger	30	15	1200	10	100	2	10	Bounty
6006	Breaker 8	45	20	1000	9	60	5	25	Bounty
6007	Avenger MK.II	45	16	1200	11	100	2	10	Bounty
6008	Breaker 9P	60	18	1100	9	60	5	25	Bounty
506006	Arquebus	60	15	1150	11	80	2	10	Bounty
506001	Iris Shotgun	65	18	1000	9	70	5	25	Bounty
506002	Iron Crow Shotgun	70	18	900	8	60	5	25	Bounty
6009	Iron Crow Shotgun (gold)	70	18	900	8	60	5	25	Bounty
506003	Biggie Shotgun	75	16	1200	9	80	5	25	Bounty
506007	Red Arquebus	75	16	1100	11	100	2	10	Bounty
506004	Cruelizon	80	16	1100	9	70	5	25	Bounty
6010	Cruelizon (silver)	80	16	1100	9	70	5	25	Bounty
506005	Pioneer	85	18	1000	9	70	6	30	Bounty
506008	Storm Bringer	90	18	1100	10	90	5	25	Bounty
506010	A-3	90	12	1100	12	90	2	10	Bounty
506009	Adventurer Shotgun	95	18	1050	10	80	5	25	Bounty
506011	Thor	99	16	1100	10	80	6	30	Bounty
400513	Shattered Iron	30	20	600	6	70	8	40	Quest
-	Donation Shotgun I	1	15	1050	10	75	5	25	100 C
-	Donation Shotgun II	1	15	1050	10	75	5	25	100 C
-	Black Infinity I	1	15	1000	10	80	6	30	200 C
-	Black Infinity II	1	15	1000	10	80	6	30	200 C
-	Black Mamba	1	15	1000	10	80	6	30	200 C
-	Black Mamba II	1	15	1000	10	80	6	30	200 C
-	Genesis Revenge	1	15	1200	12	100	2	12	150 C
-	Duelisto Shotgun	1	15	1200	12	100	2	12	150 C
-	Mayuri Shotgun	1	15	1150	12	100	2	14	200 C
-	SC12 Shotgun	1	13	1150	12	100	3	15	300 C
-	Event Shotgun	1	10	1100	10	70	5	25	Event
-	Peon Shotgun	1	10	1100	10	75	5	25	Event
-	Limitbreaker	1	15	950	10	90	6	36	Luckybox
-	Limitbreaker X	1	15	950	10	90	6	36	Luckybox

-All of the lv.90 shotguns should not be better than Donation Shotgun I/II... They should be way more toned down. I mean seriously you made the lv.99 Shotgun better than any donor.
-The control variable is way too small on Donation Shotgun I/II.
-Limitbreaker should be 900 delay to offset the rarity/cost.

lvl-weight-delay-dmg-control-magz-bullets

99 16 1000 10 90 6 30 Bounty (Thor)
01 15 1050 10 80 6 30 200 C (Black Mamba)
01 15 1000 10 90 6 36 Luckybox (lb/lbx)

Any player who've spent a lot of coins just to get an lb/lbx will be pissed at seeing this comparison.

Really? Lb and lbx? 10 dmg? And still 1000 delay? Soo sad.. i spent alot of coins just to get that lbs..

It will be nice if u set 900/950 delay

The max dmg for a doner sg should be like 10dmg and 1050 delay...

Black Infinity and black mamba with a delay of more than 1000 is really bad.
As an old igunz/ijji player the 1000 delay is like a basic rule, and I wouldn't use any 5 bullet shotgun with a delay higher than 1000.
The return of avengers is really cool. Love the option of a 2 bullet shotgun.
Balancing the game to allow free players to have something that can compete with a premium user is something that makes sense as a 99lvl = 100 coins = first premium shotgun.

And again, delays above 1000 really changes Old Kstyle timings and would really kill the old player community who loves this game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by N1B0RH00D

And again, delays above 1000 really changes Old Kstyle timings and would really kill the old player community who loves this game.

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It doesn't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ekital

-All of the lv.90 shotguns should not be better than Donation Shotgun I/II... They should be way more toned down. I mean seriously you made the lv.99 Shotgun better than any donor.
-The control variable is way too small on Donation Shotgun I/II.
-Limitbreaker should be 900 delay to offset the rarity/cost.

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Think I will make it so that lvl 95 is nearly equalt to a donation shotgun instead of lvl 90.
I will up the control to 75.
900 seems too much, I will go in the middle with 950.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hart

lvl-weight-delay-dmg-control-magz-bullets

99 16 1000 10 90 6 30 Bounty (Thor)
01 15 1050 10 80 6 30 200 C (Black Mamba)
01 15 1000 10 90 6 36 Luckybox (lb/lbx)

Any player who've spent a lot of coins just to get an lb/lbx will be pissed at seeing this comparison.

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These are not final stats, just a rough idea of how it should be, please give feedback instead of complaining.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Weak

Really? Lb and lbx? 10 dmg? And still 1000 delay? Soo sad.. i spent alot of coins just to get that lbs..

It will be nice if u set 900/950 delay

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And that is the problem, you all want a balance but you want your donors to be a ton better (aka pay2win).
900 delay is too much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by N1B0RH00D

Black Infinity and black mamba with a delay of more than 1000 is really bad.
As an old igunz/ijji player the 1000 delay is like a basic rule, and I wouldn't use any 5 bullet shotgun with a delay higher than 1000.
The return of avengers is really cool. Love the option of a 2 bullet shotgun.
Balancing the game to allow free players to have something that can compete with a premium user is something that makes sense as a 99lvl = 100 coins = first premium shotgun.

And again, delays above 1000 really changes Old Kstyle timings and would really kill the old player community who loves this game.

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What Ekital said; it does not.
Kstyle was fine on ijji with these stats.

But at least you are happy with the avenger idea. :)

normal sgs should be 1k and lb-s 950

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StephanM

Think I will make it so that lvl 95 is nearly equalt to a donation shotgun instead of lvl 90.
I will up the control to 75.
900 seems too much, I will go in the middle with 950.


These are not final stats, just a rough idea of how it should be, please give feedback instead of complaining.


And that is the problem, you all want a balance but you want your donors to be a ton better (aka pay2win).
900 delay is too much.


What Ekital said; it does not.
Kstyle was fine on ijji with these stats.

But at least you are happy with the avenger idea. :)

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StephanM, you are still making bounty better than donor. It should never be better, equal sure but not better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ekital

StephanM, you are still making bounty better than donor. It should never be better, equal sure but not better.

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And this is where everyones mindset should change a bit about what donors are.
Currnently every single donor (so far I know of) is always better as any given bounty item, we call this a pay 2 win system.

So what I did now was to nearly equal the lowest shotgun 100 coins to be on around the same of a lvl 95 & 99 shotgun from the bounty system, it is late tier and donor should be just a level skipper instead of a damage/stat skipper.
Why? At lvl 99 you can rebirth for 100 coins aka your first donation shotgun which will be the same a a lvl 95, that would mean after a rebirth you can have the same stats as a lvl 95 as a lvl 1, that is pretty bonkers if you'd ask me.

So the only difference now is that a donation would have 3 less weight and 5 control, as for the 99 has more delay it gets 1 ammo slot in return for being the last tier item.
If you think about it sort of makes sense, sure the control can be tweaked eventually but just look at the main idea behind it and why it makes sort of sense that you could be near the same with bounty as with low tier donors.

(this is only because a pure cosmetical donor system will never work in gunz, with how it has been running for the past years/with how ijji had the premium shop).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StephanM

And this is where everyones mindset should change a bit about what donors are.
Currnently every single donor (so far I know of) is always better as any given bounty item, we call this a pay 2 win system.

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This may be an unpopular opinion here but I agree with the pirate. All current popular games such as Fortnite, PUBG etc have a system where the stuff you get from paid items / crates are just extras / skins / clothes etc that won't actually affect someone's abilities or make them in any way more powerful than other players.

All GunZ private servers are guilty of applying this system it's not just here, and its been this way for many years so I understand why people don't want that to change.

The control variable is not used for shotguns. You can skip that.

It's used for rifles to define their spray (accuracy), but all shotguns have the same random spray pattern.

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Originally Posted by McSic

The control variable is not used for shotguns. You can skip that.

It's used for rifles to define their spray (accuracy), but all shotguns have the same random spray pattern.

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I though it was also for the shotguns but I never really dug into that.
Guess they can all be set to 100 in that case. *shrug*

ok, let's say this was in the game. What would be the point for me to donate for a shotgun? cause 150 delay is not that relevant IMO.
And as you mentioned I can just grind till lvl 99 and pretty much have 1 donor sg and you can rebirth and get a 100 coins one anyway.

GunZ has always been pay to win even on ijji.

ijji was P2W in the aspect of premium armour/weapons/specials however since the server was LEAD it meant the lack of someones hp/ap/damage, they made it for it with skill, being able to actually lead efficiently.

Now with Anti-lead imo it requires less skill, you point and shoot yes there's still some skill set required however since the same way of aiming applies to every user it means that a player with a 11dmg shotgun and average aim will out damage a player with a 8 dmg shotgun and great aim.


Player complaining their donation items are becoming useless, look at it this way if the server closed tomorrow you're going to lose everything therefore at that point that means your donation items are completely useless and your spent money is now gone, whilst there's a server still available and players/administrators are trying to come to a new balance which may result in your donation item only carrying a very slight advantage but it will attract a ton of players then roll with it.

Server > Donation Items NOT Donation Items > Server

I can also make a new draft with simpler numbers with where donation items would be better as bounty items, a version where the current donators should not be able to complain where bounty is equal to donation (aka just paid), I just keep thinking that so many people called the server unbalanced but yet pay to get the stronger items and still complain about it... lmao..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Notorious

Player complaining their donation items are becoming useless, look at it this way if the server closed tomorrow you're going to lose everything therefore at that point that means your donation items are completely useless and your spent money is now gone, whilst there's a server still available and players/administrators are trying to come to a new balance which may result in your donation item only carrying a very slight advantage but it will attract a ton of players then roll with it.

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but why spend money at all if it is only slight? from what I saw skimming through the changes the top bounty sgs are as good as the lb's the 150 delay and 1 shot more won't make much of a difference. And with 1 shot more I mean 1 more in total cause the lvl 99 sg also has 6 shots.

I'm fine with whatever they are going to do just makes it seems useless to spend any money IMO.

And we all know that just sg balancing won't make people just come play here instead of another server.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StephanM

And this is where everyones mindset should change a bit about what donors are.
Currnently every single donor (so far I know of) is always better as any given bounty item, we call this a pay 2 win system.

So what I did now was to nearly equal the lowest shotgun 100 coins to be on around the same of a lvl 95 & 99 shotgun from the bounty system, it is late tier and donor should be just a level skipper instead of a damage/stat skipper.
Why? At lvl 99 you can rebirth for 100 coins aka your first donation shotgun which will be the same a a lvl 95, that would mean after a rebirth you can have the same stats as a lvl 95 as a lvl 1, that is pretty bonkers if you'd ask me.

So the only difference now is that a donation would have 3 less weight and 5 control, as for the 99 has more delay it gets 1 ammo slot in return for being the last tier item.
If you think about it sort of makes sense, sure the control can be tweaked eventually but just look at the main idea behind it and why it makes sort of sense that you could be near the same with bounty as with low tier donors.

(this is only because a pure cosmetical donor system will never work in gunz, with how it has been running for the past years/with how ijji had the premium shop).

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100 delay is nothing, while an extra shot makes a way huger difference in a cw application.

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Originally Posted by BanRays

but why spend money at all if it is only slight? from what I saw skimming through the changes the top bounty sgs are as good as the lb's the 150 delay and 1 shot more won't make much of a difference. And with 1 shot more I mean 1 more in total cause the lvl 99 sg also has 6 shots.

I'm fine with whatever they are going to do just makes it seems useless to spend any money IMO.

And we all know that just sg balancing won't make people just come play here instead of another server.

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Well you say that but millions of people that play games like PUBG and Fortnite spend a lot of money on the skins etc, and none of those stuff actually affect their skills nor does it give them more powerful items. This is simply balancing things out because it never has been balanced since ijji, gcoin items / premium items on ijji made a big difference. Yet people here sometimes act like we're the only server that has this system.

Ideally donation items would only be aesthetic or for convenience.

Which I believe at the moment there are ways to get such things for free but they require time and luck...last time I checked.

A version with simpler numbers, perhaps this is what most of you are looking for (where the donation shotgun of 100C is just a tad better as a lvl 99).

* = high dmg, high delay, low ammo

ID	Name	Level	Weight	Delay	Damage	Magazine	Max. Bullets	Type
6001	Breaker 3	1	20	1200	6	3	15	Bounty
6002	Breaker 5	5	20	1150	6	3	15	Bounty
6003	Breaker 6	10	20	1100	6	3	15	Bounty
506001	Iris Shotgun *	15	20	1300	8	2	10	Bounty
6004	Breaker 7	20	20	1100	6	3	15	Bounty
506003	Biggie Shotgun	30	20	1150	7	3	15	Bounty
6005	Avenger *	35	20	1300	9	2	10	Bounty
6006	Breaker 8	40	20	1150	7	4	20	Bounty
6007	Avenger MK.II *	45	20	1350	10	2	10	Bounty
506002	Iron Crow Shotgun	50	20	1150	7	4	20	Bounty
6009	Iron Crow Shotgun (gold)	55	20	1100	7	4	20	Bounty
6008	Breaker 9	60	20	1150	8	5	25	Bounty
506006	Arquebus *	65	20	1400	11	2	10	Bounty
506004	Cruelizon	70	20	1150	8	5	25	Bounty
6010	Cruelizon (silver)	75	20	1100	8	5	25	Bounty
506007	Red Arquebus *	75	20	1400	12	2	10	Bounty
506005	Pioneer	80	20	1100	9	5	25	Bounty
506008	Storm Bringer	85	20	1050	9	5	25	Bounty
506009	Adventurer Shotgun	90	20	1100	10	5	25	Bounty
506010	A-3 *	95	20	1400	13	2	10	Bounty
506011	Thor	99	20	1000	10	5	25	Bounty
400513	Shattered Iron	30	20	600	6	8	40	Quest
-	Donation Shotgun I	1	15	1000	10	6	30	100 C
-	Donation Shotgun II	1	15	1000	10	6	30	100 C
-	Black Infinity I	1	15	950	10	6	30	200 C
-	Black Infinity II	1	15	950	10	6	30	200 C
-	Black Mamba	1	15	950	10	6	30	200 C
-	Black Mamba II	1	15	950	10	6	30	200 C
-	Genesis Revenge *	1	15	1300	12	2	12	150 C
-	Duelisto Shotgun *	1	15	1300	12	2	12	150 C
-	Mayuri Shotgun *	1	15	1300	13	2	15	200 C
-	SC12 Shotgun *	1	15	1250	13	3	18	300 C
-	Event Shotgun	1	10	1000	9	5	25	Event
-	Peon Shotgun *	1	10	1350	12	3	15	Event
-	Limitbreaker	1	15	900	10	6	36	Luckybox
-	Limitbreaker X	1	15	900	10	6	36	Luckybox

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StephanM

A version with simpler numbers, perhaps this is what most of you are looking for (where the donation shotgun of 100C is just a tad better as a lvl 99).

* = high dmg, high delay, low ammo

ID	Name	Level	Weight	Delay	Damage	Magazine	Max. Bullets	Type
6001	Breaker 3	1	20	1200	6	3	15	Bounty
6002	Breaker 5	5	20	1150	6	3	15	Bounty
6003	Breaker 6	10	20	1100	6	3	15	Bounty
506001	Iris Shotgun *	15	20	1300	8	2	10	Bounty
6004	Breaker 7	20	20	1100	6	3	15	Bounty
506003	Biggie Shotgun	30	20	1150	7	3	15	Bounty
6005	Avenger *	35	20	1300	9	2	10	Bounty
6006	Breaker 8	40	20	1150	7	4	20	Bounty
6007	Avenger MK.II *	45	20	1350	10	2	10	Bounty
506002	Iron Crow Shotgun	50	20	1150	7	4	20	Bounty
6009	Iron Crow Shotgun (gold)	55	20	1100	7	4	20	Bounty
6008	Breaker 9	60	20	1150	8	5	25	Bounty
506006	Arquebus *	65	20	1400	11	2	10	Bounty
506004	Cruelizon	70	20	1150	8	5	25	Bounty
6010	Cruelizon (silver)	75	20	1100	8	5	25	Bounty
506007	Red Arquebus *	75	20	1400	12	2	10	Bounty
506005	Pioneer	80	20	1100	9	5	25	Bounty
506008	Storm Bringer	85	20	1050	9	5	25	Bounty
506009	Adventurer Shotgun	90	20	1100	10	5	25	Bounty
506010	A-3 *	95	20	1400	13	2	10	Bounty
506011	Thor	99	20	1000	10	5	25	Bounty
400513	Shattered Iron	30	20	600	6	8	40	Quest
-	Donation Shotgun I	1	15	1000	10	6	30	100 C
-	Donation Shotgun II	1	15	1000	10	6	30	100 C
-	Black Infinity I	1	15	950	10	6	30	200 C
-	Black Infinity II	1	15	950	10	6	30	200 C
-	Black Mamba	1	15	950	10	6	30	200 C
-	Black Mamba II	1	15	950	10	6	30	200 C
-	Genesis Revenge *	1	15	1300	12	2	12	150 C
-	Duelisto Shotgun *	1	15	1300	12	2	12	150 C
-	Mayuri Shotgun *	1	15	1300	13	2	15	200 C
-	SC12 Shotgun *	1	15	1250	13	3	18	300 C
-	Event Shotgun	1	10	1000	9	5	25	Event
-	Peon Shotgun *	1	10	1350	12	3	15	Event
-	Limitbreaker	1	15	900	10	6	36	Luckybox
-	Limitbreaker X	1	15	900	10	6	36	Luckybox

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The problems I have with 10 damage shotguns is that the maximum HP/AP is 139/119? For me those type of damages are still overpowered for the amount of HP/AP players are using, however if the maximum damage per pellet was capped at 9 for the best shotgun it would give an overall of a 12 damage damage drop when hitting the maximum damage pointblank shot.

Maximum health; 258
Current maximum damage; 120
Decrease damage by 1 per pellet; 108

So when players use the [V] tag reduciing HP/AP to an overall value of 220, shotguns aren't able to 2 shot and overall prolonging the fight and making it further balanced in terms of using donation shotguns.


Your other values in terms of delays are fine, it's just damage outputs that need re-addressing (decrease all values by 1 damage)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeus

The problems I have with 10 damage shotguns is that the maximum HP/AP is 139/119? For me those type of damages are still overpowered for the amount of HP/AP players are using, however if the maximum damage per pellet was capped at 9 for the best shotgun it would give an overall of a 12 damage damage drop when hitting the maximum damage pointblank shot.

Maximum health; 258
Current maximum damage; 120
Decrease damage by 1 per pellet; 108

So when players use the [V] tag reduciing HP/AP to an overall value of 220, shotguns aren't able to 2 shot and overall prolonging the fight and making it further balanced in terms of using donation shotguns.


Your other values in terms of delays are fine, it's just damage outputs that need re-addressing (decrease all values by 1 damage)

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Can up to overall hp from 139 to 150 with gear (add a hp or 2 per piece?).

I'm ok with this kind of changes in premiums.
However for non premium, only One shotgun (the lvl 99 one) will have 1000 delay, so there will be no good dual shotgun combination for non premium players.
Also I don't think there is a need to reduce the magazine of low level shotguns, the difference of delay and damage is enough. Imagine trying to kill a premium user with breaker 7-6 combination. That's only 6 shots at 6dmg. Requiring 4 perfect PB to kill someone. I think previous iteration on regular shotgun up to lvl 90 made more sense.

I don't mind the ability to get 2 shotted, Massive + 2 PB or slash + 2pb since it has always been a thing and rewards player that try to engage in close fights. [V] is tag that change hp/ap to 225 total but could be 240-250 if you wanted to match more the regular amount of ap/hp, so I don't think V tag should be a reason for changing shotgun damage. Imo the best way to make fights longer was the use of Vials.

Anyway ultimately it depends on what the goal is, try to think more of combination possible at lvl 70+ (since after lvl 70 it starts taking a bit more time to level up) .
Alright good luck and keep up the good work.