Dagger Balances/Changes

I make this post in regards to and on behalf of the disregarded D-style community. I previously made a post in regards to daggers balances/changes, that was post was accepted and the changes were implemented in order to give a smaller model size to daggers and adjust damage to daggers to a reasonable state. I am coming back to make another post however due to the D-style community being concerned during V8 at a clear change to daggers reducing their range significantly.

Our main issue with this is that daggers are already weak as it is and were not considered by any means over powered during V7 either, they were pretty much a same range as swords and could be block tapped still. The new changes to the range make it almost impossible to perform key moves like D machine and Dagger taps which are important within D-style without getting recoiled or stopped completely earlier within the D machines making it now significantly weak combined with the already known animation delays during moves like Blink, Shimmershot and aerial movements in comparison to K-style which do not suffer from these delays.

I have already posted about this as a suggestion however this is more of a open based discussion.

I would like to hear other peoples opinions in this matter, preferably other D stylers who can relate to some of the issues I talk about within this thread although of course all are welcome for input.

-Zefard

Clan: STREETD

I'll check the xml to see how the range was changed, once I figure that out I'll give you an update on when it'll be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Jetman

I'll check the xml to see how the range was changed, once I figure that out I'll give you an update on when it'll be fixed.

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Great! cheers for that

Please revert dagger range to v7. Every time I get outranged by a sword in situations that hardly ever happened during v7, I lose a brain cell and gain a chromosome.

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Originally Posted by asduasdaw

Please revert dagger range to v7. Every time I get outranged by a sword in situations that hardly ever happened during v7, I lose a brain cell and gain a chromosome.

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Though it makes sense that a sword would outrange a dagger by far..
I think daggers need less delay compared to swod (by like 25% at a minimum).

Look at these pointy fker.
https://img00.deviantart.net/8239/i/...es-d9djeuw.jpg

Yes Dmg dagger

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Originally Posted by StephanM

Though it makes sense that a sword would outrange a dagger by far..
I think daggers need less delay compared to swod (by like 25% at a minimum).

Look at these pointy fker.
https://img00.deviantart.net/8239/i/...es-d9djeuw.jpg

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Although i understand the angle your coming from basing things off a realistic perspective with that same logic the great swords would need to be longer which would cause unbalances also most of Gunz is not based of realistic perspective any who (which is fine in my opinion) meaning that it would not be so bad if daggers were the same range as swords. I currently base things off a mechanics of the game and a game play perspective, basing things off a realistic perspective would bring unbalances to the game. I understand however though ^^.

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Originally Posted by zefard

Although i understand the angle your coming from basing things off a realistic perspective with that same logic the great swords would need to be longer which would cause unbalances also most of Gunz is not based of realistic perspective any who (which is fine in my opinion) meaning that it would not be so bad if daggers were the same range as swords. I currently base things off a mechanics of the game and a game play perspective, basing things off a realistic perspective would bring unbalances to the game. I understand however though ^^.

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Well theyre not that much longer, aswell as the fact that you dont hold them in the exact base like swords. Theyre more massive yes, which is why theyre weilded differently and do more damage.

I dont know whether this would be an okay comparison to balance things off of, but maybe do a dps test with each kind of weapon and balance based on that?
Sword playstyles could probably be considered more complex cause players can slash and block while daggers only slash (ignoring animation cancels). Maybe this is a sign daggers need more dps overall as daggers have a natural disadvantage (maybe lower delay too cause theyre faster to weild irl compared to swords)

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Originally Posted by Bunny

Well theyre not that much longer, aswell as the fact that you dont hold them in the exact base like swords. Theyre more massive yes, which is why theyre weilded differently and do more damage.

I dont know whether this would be an okay comparison to balance things off of, but maybe do a dps test with each kind of weapon and balance based on that?
Sword playstyles could probably be considered more complex cause players can slash and block while daggers only slash (ignoring animation cancels). Maybe this is a sign daggers need more dps overall as daggers have a natural disadvantage (maybe lower delay too cause theyre faster to weild irl compared to swords)

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but in that same sense that great swords arnt "much longer" than swords neither is dagger that much shorter than swords range, its more about if we are slashing at the same time, daggers get completely disabled mid d machine and dont have another counter aspect, and also weather you lower the delay or not would not even matter, because you'd still not be able to perform a d machine regardless due to the sword range completely keeping daggers at an "arms" length per say. Lower the delay however you like but if you cant get to them in the first place that delay wont do much.

By adding the dagger range back to how it was wouldn't unbalance things either, K-stylers would still be able to use other aspects to counter it where as daggers are made completely disabled. Swords and great swords already have such a big kit to play around with i wouldn't see the harm in adding the old d machine range back to how it was, from what it seems like it also wasn't included within patch notes and wasn't announced, well jet man said he will take a look at the ranges and change them back it seems regardless.

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Originally Posted by zefard

but in that same sense that great swords arnt "much longer" than swords neither is dagger that much shorter than swords range, its more about if we are slashing at the same time, daggers get completely disabled mid d machine and dont have another counter aspect, and also weather you lower the delay or not would not even matter, because you'd still not be able to perform a d machine regardless due to the sword range completely keeping daggers at an "arms" length per say. Lower the delay however you like but if you cant get to them in the first place that delay wont do much.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

By adding the dagger range back to how it was wouldn't unbalance things either, K-stylers would still be able to use other aspects to counter it where as daggers are made completely disabled. Swords and great swords already have such a big kit to play around with i wouldn't see the harm in adding the old d machine range back to how it was, from what it seems like it also wasn't included within patch notes and wasn't announced, well jet man said he will take a look at the ranges and change them back it seems regardless.

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Out of curiosity, did you play iGunz or ijji/aeria? If so what dagger did you use?

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Originally Posted by S1lent

Out of curiosity, did you play iGunz or ijji/aeria? If so what dagger did you use?

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Aye I did since igunz throughout, mainly used the Crystal Blade and Shadow Vane from what I remember

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Originally Posted by zefard

Aye I did since igunz throughout, mainly used the Crystal Blade and Shadow Vane from what I remember

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Those had 2 different ranges. Crystal was 160 while Shadow had the same range as a katana (220). Just some insight for your endeavor in this thread. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by S1lent

Those had 2 different ranges. Crystal was 160 while Shadow had the same range as a katana (220). Just some insight for your endeavor in this thread. Good luck.

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Aye, i mean mainly everyone used Shadow Vane though, some used Crystal Blade just because they loved the look of it to be honest haha