Damage System Has To Be Fixed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trRiRC41_q0

Hello, the provided video simply shows you all how much the damage system is barely effective.
Before I get into explaining the cases in the video, lemme clear out a quick thing.
Attachment 18194
My net is pretty decent, I didn't have any spikes during the gameplay in the vidoe. Plus, my opponents ping wasn't above 80 and they actually had a stable net too and didn't lag at all. So, PBs weren't registering NOT due to net issues.
Let's get into our cases that need to be verified:

Case 1 : in 00:02 a 0 range hit which is supposed to make around 108 dmg I guess ? (Full PB) has actually made 45 DMG.
Case 2 : in 00:08 another close-range hit which is supposed to make plenty of damage has actually made 18 DMG.
Case 3 : in 00:10 2 centered middle-range hits (1st hit made 45 DMG, 2nd hit made 36 DMG). Can we compare case 3 and case 2 please ? since when middle-range hits deal more damage than close-range hits ?
Case 4 : in 00:13 another 0 range well-centered hit which is supposed to make a full PB has actually made 45 DMG.
Case 5 : in 00:17 static distance between me and the enemy, centered crosshair, 2 hits were dealt - each hit made DIFFERENT DMG. (1st hit made 63 DMG, 2nd hit made 30 DMG) - we are talking about 2 hits that have more than a TWOFOLD DMG difference. Although knowing that the 2 hits have no prominent outer factors, unless we take the bullets spread into consideration - each hit the shotgun did, it threw different bullets distribution. However, that still doesn't clarify a TWOFOLD DMG difference! Besides, I had no teammates behind me that contributed in damaging the enemy, I faced him alone. I even whispered the guy right after the kill if my 2 shots hit him any hard and he said that one did and one didn't.
Case 6 : in 00:23 the first two shots I made on him during a backstab - (1st one made 54 DMG, 2nd one made 108 DMG). 2 solid shots were done. Our current case pretty similar to case 5 right now. However, we are talking about a pretty close-range now. 2 hits, almost same close range between me and the enemy, another TWOFOLD DMG difference existed.

Summary: The cases I just mentioned are presenting an irritating logic. The clips were taken from a single recording of 20 minutes.
I could provide more cases too, I was just too lazy to catch more. Regarding the spread, I believe it's good.
Regarding anti-lead, the video explains enough. I've visited the latest updates that were released, no changes were made that has to do with
anti-lead. Most of the updates consisted a lot of new nice added features, however these updates doesn't help the players that are into clan wars.
FGunZ's daily online players range between 90-110 let's say, and most of the time clan wars are just pretty dead. Basically, reviving clan wars
will surely increase the game's active players and I highly believe that it would be revived once you fix the way shotguns damage register.
Nowadays, FGunZ lacks them competitive clan warriors who always made the game more entertaining. Get them back by having a decent
damage system. Make your best and good luck with that. I hope to see a complete professional update related to our main issue.

Very well written, this has been an issue for a long time.

Very well written, this has been an issue for a long time.

I think the DMG system is fine as is, I adore the chills it gives me when I finally roll a high DMG shot.

Bless the RNG gods who look down on us from above and may they bless me with more high DMG rolls.
Oh, and I hope they bless you too!

i think they should leave it the way it is, it doesnt need to be buffed. main issue is 10-13 damage shotguns, they need to be removed from cw

i've had many instances like this as well, where i felt like i should've done so much more. But difference is i have pellets turned on and i rewatch the replays. and while its crazy to know you can miss at that range, its rng of the pellets afterall. the very slightest movement right before you shoot greatly affects your outcome - and you'll only get to see this affect with pellets on

case 1,2,6 - your low dmg shots seemed to be flicks that involve the very slightest movements right before you shoot
case 3 - shots here did what they were supposed to because these were stable shots and not movement-related shots like case 2
case 4 is the only sus clip imo, but you'll never know if you don't have pellets turned on.
case 5 - your second shoot mightve hit for more, but was only able to register 30 because of opponents hp, so you never actually get to find out how much the second shoot did

Very well written, this has been an issue for a long time.
But I think they got other things I mean important things to be working on, be patient.

ye its weird for me too, I guess its just the RNG spread, some rounds you miss center, get high dmg, some rounds you hit dead center and get 9 dmg. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hart

i've had many instances like this as well, where i felt like i should've done so much more. But difference is i have pellets turned on and i rewatch the replays. and while its crazy to know you can miss at that range, its rng of the pellets afterall. the very slightest movement right before you shoot greatly affects your outcome - and you'll only get to see this affect with pellets on

case 1,2,6 - your low dmg shots seemed to be flicks that involve the very slightest movements right before you shoot
case 3 - shots here did what they were supposed to because these were stable shots and not movement-related shots like case 2
case 4 is the only sus clip imo, but you'll never know if you don't have pellets turned on.
case 5 - your second shoot mightve hit for more, but was only able to register 30 because of opponents hp, so you never actually get to find out how much the second shoot did

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Flicking and moving faster DOESN'T affect the damage. I can get examples of players who actually flick and move pretty fast and yet they still can deal a lot of damage.
However, since we got a damage issue in this server - the people I'm talking about would still not hit hard despite their flicks and moves. Everytime I hop on to play, I keep changing the style I play, sometimes I track, move slow and walk, sometimes I move fast and flick a lot. Yet, same various weird damage registering happen whatever your style is during playing. As long as a player can actually moves fast and flick and aim pretty well at the same time, then he still can deal good damage, but the issue we are facing doesn't help. If I didn't convince you, we can go in-game and have some battles by implementing different gameplays (slow and fast) + (flicking and tracking), then I'll prove my point that I can actually hit hard and cannot hit hard in any style of gameplay I stick to.

Therefore, cases 1,2 and 6 have nothing to do with flicks. In my unedited video - without slow-motions, I was actually tracking.
I mentioned case 3 in order to have a comparison of how damage registered in close-range and middle-range. Clearly, you can see middle-range shots dealt almost as same as a close-range shots which makes no sense. In case 4, even if I had my bullets shown, that still doesn't explain why I dealt 45 damage PB. The shotgun I used in that shot was a 9 damage - which means it throws 10-12 bullets at a time, each bullet does 9 damage. Let's be more light and take the minimum bullets a shotgun threw - 10 bullets.
So, since the shot made 45 damage that means only 5 bullets touched the enemy in our close-range (45/9=5). However, my crosshair was well-centered when I shot, and only HALF of the bullets touched my enemy in a close-range - no logic exists. Now, if we consider that the shotgun threw 11 or 12 bullets then that will make our case even worse. Regarding case 5, it's the only thing I agree with you. It's true he died, and damage only calculates what has left of hp/ap of the enemy, didn't take that into consideration, thank you for clearing this out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ijramist

Flicking and moving faster DOESN'T affect the damage. I can get examples of players who actually flick and move pretty fast and yet they still can deal a lot of damage.
However, since we got a damage issue in this server - the people I'm talking about would still not hit hard despite their flicks and moves. Everytime I hop on to play, I keep changing the style I play, sometimes I track, move slow and walk, sometimes I move fast and flick a lot. Yet, same various weird damage registering happen whatever your style is during playing. As long as a player can actually moves fast and flick and aim pretty well at the same time, then he still can deal good damage, but the issue we are facing doesn't help. If I didn't convince you, we can go in-game and have some battles by implementing different gameplays (slow and fast) + (flicking and tracking), then I'll prove my point that I can actually hit hard and cannot hit hard in any style of gameplay I stick to.

Therefore, cases 1,2 and 6 have nothing to do with flicks. In my unedited video - without slow-motions, I was actually tracking.
I mentioned case 3 in order to have a comparison of how damage registered in close-range and middle-range. Clearly, you can see middle-range shots dealt almost as same as a close-range shots which makes no sense. In case 4, even if I had my bullets shown, that still doesn't explain why I dealt 45 damage PB. The shotgun I used in that shot was a 9 damage - which means it throws 10-12 bullets at a time, each bullet does 9 damage. Let's be more light and take the minimum bullets a shotgun threw - 10 bullets.
So, since the shot made 45 damage that means only 5 bullets touched the enemy in our close-range (45/9=5). However, my crosshair was well-centered when I shot, and only HALF of the bullets touched my enemy in a close-range - no logic exists. Now, if we consider that the shotgun threw 11 or 12 bullets then that will make our case even worse. Regarding case 5, it's the only thing I agree with you. It's true he died, and damage only calculates what has left of hp/ap of the enemy, didn't take that into consideration, thank you for clearing this out.

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Flicking and moving your cursor rapidly right before you shoot has everything to do with how much you deal simply because of mouse sensitivity.
Here’s an extremely simple and easy to understand concept. You experiment with 2 shots from the exact same distance
First shoot - you place your cursor right in the middle on someone who isn’t moving and shoot. You’ll deal a consistent and high amount.
Second shoot - you take the same distance and the same person that isn’t moving, but this time you move your cursor right to left and shoot.
Do you think you will deal as consistent and as much damage on the second shot compared to the first? If your answer is no then my case for 1,2,6 stands.

The milliseconds of movements right before a shot goes off plays an extremely big part in your dmg. Without pellets, this is impossible to see. But if you try and play with pellets on and go back to watch the replays, you’ll see how cursor placement during fast movement greatly affects aim.

On the topic of how some players can move extremely quick but still deal consistent dmg. Some players are just better than us at the game. Comparing yourself to another player isn’t comparing apples to apples.

Btw I get where you’re coming from. But unless pellets are turned, you have nothing on your case.

Shots 1-5: Clearly missed.
Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control).
Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses.
Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because Hiko was already dead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hart

Flicking and moving your cursor rapidly right before you shoot has everything to do with how much you deal simply because of mouse sensitivity.
Here’s an extremely simple and easy to understand concept. You experiment with 2 shots from the exact same distance
First shoot - you place your cursor right in the middle on someone who isn’t moving and shoot. You’ll deal a consistent and high amount.
Second shoot - you take the same distance and the same person that isn’t moving, but this time you move your cursor right to left and shoot.
Do you think you will deal as consistent and as much damage on the second shot compared to the first? If your answer is no then my case for 1,2,6 stands.

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No, because the probability of hitting more bullets will be less. However, that doesn't mean we can accept a TWOFOLD damage difference (more than half bullets were missed). Let's create a situation for now, the worst case we can do is to aim on arms or any of the limbs. In that case, I can agree wtih you. But in the video my crosshair is not even any close to have such situation. My crosshair is either well-centered or almost centered - which is meant to deal a lot of damage. Again, we are talking about a TWOFOLD damage difference between a solid-centered shot and an almost centered shot, in the worst cases I believe the maximum damage difference should be 1.5 times in my cases.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hart

The milliseconds of movements right before a shot goes off plays an extremely big part in your dmg. Without pellets, this is impossible to see. But if you try and play with pellets on and go back to watch the replays, you’ll see how cursor placement during fast movement greatly affects aim.

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You can't take someone who can't aim while moving as an example. Our discussed issue is prominent - aimming and damaging. Regarding aimming, we gotta take both two possible situations: 1) aim + fast movements and flicks. 2) aim + slow movements and less flicks. These are the only two situations that can help us to conclude various points. Why are you taking an X that has movements and doesn't has an aim ? As long as the guy can barely aim while moving then that's his personal issue, not a game's mechanism issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hart

On the topic of how some players can move extremely quick but still deal consistent dmg. Some players are just better than us at the game. Comparing yourself to another player isn’t comparing apples to apples.

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You are now talking about a miscellaneous gaming levels. In order to debate about a game's system relating damage issue, then we have to take the maximum number of scenarios that are aim-related. We can't take someone who can't aim while moving as an example to interfere in our discussion. As I mentioned before, that will turn into a personal issue to that player himself and lack of training.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hart

Btw I get where you’re coming from. But unless pellets are turned, you have nothing on your case.

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I've no idea what you are talking about, came from where ?

explain the massive part pls https://www.twitch.tv/itzfr3shh/clip...=all&sort=time lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tzunami best0

explain the massive part pls https://www.twitch.tv/itzfr3shh/clip...=all&sort=time lol

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Most hated shit in cw's :( I dont know what makes like this, I always use to blame "lag shield" idk it is server side or players side, in the end cw is ultra shit to me.


Edit: +1 Title

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ijramist

No, because the probability of hitting more bullets will be less. However, that doesn't mean we can accept a TWOFOLD damage difference (more than half bullets were missed). Let's create a situation for now, the worst case we can do is to aim on arms or any of the limbs. In that case, I can agree wtih you. But in the video my crosshair is not even any close to have such situation. My crosshair is either well-centered or almost centered - which is meant to deal a lot of damage. Again, we are talking about a TWOFOLD damage difference between a solid-centered shot and an almost centered shot, in the worst cases I believe the maximum damage difference should be 1.5 times in my cases.



You can't take someone who can't aim while moving as an example. Our discussed issue is prominent - aimming and damaging. Regarding aimming, we gotta take both two possible situations: 1) aim + fast movements and flicks. 2) aim + slow movements and less flicks. These are the only two situations that can help us to conclude various points. Why are you taking an X that has movements and doesn't has an aim ? As long as the guy can barely aim while moving then that's his personal issue, not a game's mechanism issue.



You are now talking about a miscellaneous gaming levels. In order to debate about a game's system relating damage issue, then we have to take the maximum number of scenarios that are aim-related. We can't take someone who can't aim while moving as an example to interfere in our discussion. As I mentioned before, that will turn into a personal issue to that player himself and lack of training.


I've no idea what you are talking about, came from where ?

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every single one of your rebuttals is backed up by the assumption that you're a 10/10 aimer, which cannot be concluded without pellets turned on. Its the same concept as when people complain about hitting PB's that do low dmg. Last time i checked FG doesnt have a PB recognition counter. You only truly know through pellets.

you deduce that every single one of your shots that did low dmg are dead center. But watching it in slow-mo says otherwise, + you're also not taking into consideration the most important aspect of spread - rng.


Said this in all my replies and am gonna say it again, only pellets will tell, without them, you donthave a case to build on.

I'd like to propose a new spread variation that could cling to nearby opponents.
Here's a demonstration of how it could look:
https://i.imgur.com/yHYgfji.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hart

every single one of your rebuttals is backed up by the assumption that you're a 10/10 aimer, which cannot be concluded without pellets turned on. Its the same concept as when people complain about hitting PB's that do low dmg. Last time i checked FG doesnt have a PB recognition counter. You only truly know through pellets.

you deduce that every single one of your shots that did low dmg are dead center. But watching it in slow-mo says otherwise, + you're also not taking into consideration the most important aspect of spread - rng.


Said this in all my replies and am gonna say it again, only pellets will tell, without them, you donthave a case to build on.

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I’m aware that it is an RNG based game. It’s been like that since GunZ 1.5 if I’m not wrong. I’m not claiming that I’m a 10/10 aimer, I’m just considering the correct requirements we have to put in order to clarify our issue in general. Anyways, if I had enough time in the future to record more clips with pellets on I’ll provide it.
If you are able to do that, it would be highly appreciated then.

Very well written, this has been an issue for a long time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SkyWodka

Shots 1-5: Clearly missed.
Shots 6-9: Missed due to recoil (bad spray control).
Shots 10-11: Very close, but recoil and inaccuracy make these reasonable misses.
Shot 12: Likely didn't actually fire because Hiko was already dead.

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Wat da hell is recoil/spray control on gunz lmfao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ganggbangg

Wat da hell is recoil/spray control on gunz lmfao

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Famous Csgo copypasta

Very well written, this has been an issue for a long time, hope to be fixed

Lol I went to check your video. The thing is that this server is actually really accurate, your eyes perceive you might make a pb, but you aren't.

The fact that you do more damage from further range only has to do with the shots being less compressed the farther away an enemy is. Meaning that if you miss close range, you're more likely to deal less dmg than if you miss from far range.

I'd recommend you watching your own video, putting the speed at 0.25 and pausing continuously as you are about to hit. In most of these cases it should be obvious that you're barely missing, but the gameplay is so real-time and fast paced, that your eyes perceive it as a hit. especially with those fast paced flicks, your gun may be in an entirely different place in just a frame.

I took some screenshots to show you, when you just hit, but you only see the "hit" marker on the top right slightly after u shot, so it's not super accurate to show the screenshots, rather listen to the sound of you hitting and looking at where your crosshair is at that moment. You'll see that you're not so accurate as you think you are.

If you feel like you hit less on this server than the original or another server, you could be right. Since I believe the bullet pattern is altered on this server and at least the shots are a lot more compressed, meaning that you usually would hit a lot more because the shotgun spread was wide enough to grant you a ton of hits. And I'm not sure if this is the case, but in official servers I felt like I was able to curve my pellets to make a good hit on someone, which doesn't seem to be the case here.

So it's an entirely different experience, but at the same time it's a lot more accurate.

-make the spread uniform
on a hit:
-x= the minimum between 0.5 seconds and the interval of time the aim(spread) was on target before the hit
-calculate the time weighted average during x interval of the spread's supposed damage on the target , closer time to the hit=higher weight
-calculate the damage regularly
-take the maximum damage
-do damage

i've had many instances like this as well, where i felt like i should've done so much more.

But difference is i have pellets turned on and i rewatch the replays.

and while its crazy to know you can miss at that range, its rng of the pellets afterall.

the very slightest movement right before you shoot greatly affects your outcome - and you'll only get to see this affect with pellets on

case 1,2,6 - your low dmg shots seemed to be flicks that involve the very slightest movements right before you shoot

case 3 - shots here did what they were supposed to because these were stable shots and not movement-related shots like case 2

case 4 is the only sus clip imo, but you'll never know if you don't have pellets turned on.

case 5 - your second shoot mightve hit for more, but was only able to register 30 because of opponents hp, so you never actually get to find out how much the second shoot did

Honestly, I hit pretty hard doesn't matter what server i play on.
FGunZ had it's moments where my hits wouldn't do anything but it didn't happen that many times and it was usually my own fault.