Lead or AntiLead?

Well, I figured a debate regarding leading would be quite a interesting one to watch.
I'm sure all of you have played a AntiLead server, and I'm sure all of you had the 'wtfbs' moments.

My opinion regarding Lead/AntiLead is I prefer lead servers. Why?
1. In AntiLead servers, there is a higher chance of Shotbots and Aimbots. With no lead systems, It just begs to be abused by cheaters that do use Shotbots or Aimbots. (In case you didn't know the difference, Shotbot is where once your xhair turns 'red' (or is aimed at a person) it will automatically shoot without you having to click. Aimbot is where the xhair will always follow (or sometimes uses a hotkey) a player).

1a. Another thing regarding Shotbots and Aimbots is you never know when a person is Shotboting! It is sometimes quite difficult to tell when someone is using a Shotbot. Because of this, Player reports will start to come in 10x more. I can see the Player Report section becoming mostly reports of people using Shotbots/Aimbots. People could easily say, "oh mai aim just fuxpro qqless". There is even the chance of people that don't even cheat getting banned! Not to mention this would put quite a load onto the staff.

2. AntiLead isn't always AntiLead. I'm sure some of you noticed this sometimes. The thing with most AntiLead systems, is it makes up for connection lag. But, When there is also computer or CPU lag (maybe even lag due to a fuxcrap GFX card) the AntiLead system would be useless.

3. Balancing isn't the same with AntiLead servers and Lead servers. If a server becomes AntiLead, Weap's like SG's need to be nulled a bit compared to Lead servers. I noticed MOST servers have got the point of a decent balance. But, Look at how long it took for some servers to come up with a decent balance formula for lead servers? Imagine how long it can take for people to figure out a decent balance for AntiLead servers. I mean, Imagine if FGunz because AntiLead.. With the current damage on donor SG's, Two PB's (which isn't hard to do in AntiLead servers) your dead. Maybe ~4 shots of mid-range spam your dead.

4. Some people like to think of leading as a skill; It gives more depth to the Gunz experience. I'm sure most people would agree that leading isn't always easy. I would say it can be a bit harder then AntiLead sometimes. Think of it like this: With AntiLead, You don't have to guess or aim ahead of the person you are fighting. You don't have to take the other players ping into consideration and can just shoot at the person without a second thought. With lead on the other hand you have to take the users ping into consideration and at the same time, shoot ahead of that person. I know some people may not agree with me on this point but hey, that's what a debate is all about. ;P

5. You also may want to ask yourself why you haven't seen this 'AntiLead' system in many other Online FPS games.

Anyway, Because of these points I'm against AntiLead servers. You people also may want to note, Haven't you noticed the increase of players in-game recently? I think it is related to a lot of the servers going AntiLead. There is quite a few people out there that prefer to lead then watch Gunz turn into another horribad FPS/TPS with even more horribad graphics.

i dont have any problems with anti lead, cause most of those players are bad when they shotbot or do anything els to get better :D

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Originally Posted by Famous

i dont have any problems with anti lead, cause most of those players are bad when they shotbot or do anything els to get better :D

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Yeah, But they still kill you.

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Originally Posted by Katsuro

Yeah, But they still kill you.

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if u know how to play they wont kill you that easily :)

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Originally Posted by Famous

if u know how to play they wont kill you that easily :)

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There is people out there that know how to play and still shotbot. Just like how people know how to play and still uc.
Doesn't matter, The fact is they have a unfair advantage.

1 + 1a) It will be worth it.
2) Depends how it's coded.
3) Re-balancing is always possible.
4) Leading and aiming both requires skill. Try doing a revolver fight with a mate on your own network, you will have 0 - 2 ping and you will see it requires skill. :)
5) This is because the engine of other games are better coded. I can't think of any other games where you have to lead badly.

Just my thoughts. Criticism is welcome lol.

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Originally Posted by SuperWaffle

1 + 1a) It will be worth it.
2) Depends how it's coded.
3) Re-balancing is always possible.
4) Leading and aiming both requires skill. Try doing a revolver fight with a mate on your own network, you will have 0 - 2 ping and you will see it requires skill. :)
5) This is because the engine of other games are better coded. I can't think of any other games where you have to lead badly.

Just my thoughts. Criticism is welcome lol.

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Regarding 1&1a.
Are you sure it would be worth it? I know some servers have actually asked players to stop reporting for such a thing because there was so many reports regarding his issue. I don't think it would be worth it if the issue was just ingored. Not to mention, If there was a AntiHack involved (and a antilead server would be retarted without one) it could be even calling for hackers to try to bypass it for the shotbots. I think you want to give people as little reason as possible to bypass antihacks or cheat. Making it possible for simple shotbots to work due to a antilead system just gives hackers another reason to bypass the antihack. Once that happens, you never know the whole method of the antihack would need to be redone (depending on antihack and bypass of course).

Anti-Lead system = No underclocking. And if you are good enough, then you can easily kill shotbotters if the server you play on got Anti-Lead system.

anti-lead is good because
even halofan65513 can actually get kills, if you can aim its good
also leading servers give u more chances to win ex. if ur against laggers and have a bad aim leading is a good option for you.
tho I prefer anti-leading servers ^^

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Originally Posted by ChrisM

Anti-Lead system = No underclocking. And if you are good enough, then you can easily kill shotbotters if the server you play on got Anti-Lead system.

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Anti-lead = no underclocking?

I still know people who underclocks in anti lead. it makes u hit harder ;)

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Originally Posted by Famous

Anti-lead = no underclocking?

I still know people who underclocks in anti lead. it makes u hit harder ;)

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Underclock is useless on servers with Anti-Lead system.

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Originally Posted by ChrisM

Underclock is useless on servers with Anti-Lead system.

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nope it aint useless.

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Originally Posted by Famous

nope it aint useless.

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Why underclock if you can 3 shot people without?

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Originally Posted by ChrisM

Why underclock if you can 3 shot people without?

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lets say,

without uc u 4 shot people.

with uc u 2 shot ppl

get it ?

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Originally Posted by Famous

lets say,

without uc u 4 shot people.

with uc u 2 shot ppl

get it ?

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Okay, you are right.

didnt we talk about this ? o.o
anyways i say Lead

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Originally Posted by Famous

lets say,

without uc u 4 shot people.

with uc u 2 shot ppl

get it ?

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Underclock larges the hitboxes of enemys -> Ex. u shoot from 2 meters a person -> pb,
u can do the same thing from 3-4 meters with uc
Underclock doesnt add any wep dmg

underclock also very slightly makes ur own hitbox abit smaller

O.o antilead for the win cuz with my pro aim i 3-4 shot pown all for real yesh babe

No lead on gunz usually is just luck. You'll have a lot of people who can beat you by potshoting when they aren't good at all, plus the annoying overpowered revolver spam, they have a revolver which get me half hp with 1 shot imagine that with no lead spamming.

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Originally Posted by SuperWaffle

5) This is because the engine of other games are better coded.

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Back then Quake 3 wasnt rly bad at all you know ...

I got used to leading, I don't mind to lead :D.

Well, Me being in Hawaii gives me decent distance lag to like 80% of the people. So naturally I got used to lead in the first place.

Lead please, it gives it challenge unlike anti-lead where people Massive -> Pb and dead. in here, you have to actually lead your massive and your pb. huhuhuhu

just learn to lead and bye bye problem trolol

It's not easy like that xD

i dont like this thread :o

Me > BR's > UC > no lead

I don't think that lead is a problem, I mean yea antilead would be good but without leading what would gunz be then?.

There should a game tag for example [NoLead] for rooms.
Rooms with that tag would automaticly be no lead, the other rooms you could lead.

^ but that's pretty much impossible

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Originally Posted by WDUWMF

There should a game tag for example [NoLead] for rooms.
Rooms with that tag would automaticly be no lead, the other rooms you could lead.

^ but that's pretty much impossible

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its possible.
and btw, idk why you guys prefer to shoot walls and hope you hit your oponent..

i'd rather not have anti lead since my aim is horrible

Anti-lead all the way.. You can just put like !lead in title of your room to turn it off or something ya know?

mehh i tried no lead servers... it sucks tbh some br was in front of me kept shooting forward while i was behind him.. but he killed me.. cause he see me in front of him

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Originally Posted by Hiso

mehh i tried no lead servers... it sucks tbh some br was in front of me kept shooting forward while i was behind him.. but he killed me.. cause he see me in front of him

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o_O
That's weird. But, Yeah..
I say keep one of the main factors (in this case Aim/Lead) of Gunz alone. I think the way Gunz was made, There shouldn't be such thing as AntiLead. I'm sure the developers knew that people would encounter distance lag issues when they first made Gunz.. So I'm even more sure they wouldn't leave such a issue unchecked or at least they may of left it unchecked because of some of the issues I stated in my first post. Who knows, At this point I'm just guessing. ;P

Well there is gonna be a Anti-lead here anyways i think.
My view:
Say your in dm or duel and your fighting a br you hit him he goes 1 hp down but because hes lagging like hell and most brs aim are bad; get this...
my aim 8/10 but because i have to lead it doesnt do any damage because i fail at leading.
br aim sucks so they wont hit me they'll hit the side of me = lead.
I you suck at aiming you pro at leading i guess.
But i can only aim not lead so i say ANTI LEAD FTW.

Plus guys it really helps against Brs and stuff.

Eeeeee.. x.x I will read that soon enough, I just woke up >.<

well i dont think it rlly matters about whether or not we should have a anti lead server cuz gunz is all about aiming/leading and hand coordination o.o.

I want anti - lead here, Balancing won't be hard and we can easily report shotbotters, Anti - Lead won't be a problem.

Well since it looks like some people want lead and some dont why cant you make it a commant as in !lead ??

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Originally Posted by Luckyseven

Well since it looks like some people want lead and some dont why cant you make it a commant as in !lead ??

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the command is allready suggested, twice?
and with a decent anti hack (coming)
shotbot, aimfix, aimbot isnt a problem

Anti lead.
But not for the whole server maybe for a certain channel.

wellls my opinion is as follows

Anti-lead is fun - but it's so much easier to kill people which kind of takes most fun out of the game, Where as in lead you actually have to learn more and it's more challengeing, i find the more challengeing the better, but i guess that's just me XD

Learn to lead or quit gunz (Wait till V7 for no lead for baddy's) :P

I really need an anti-lead, since i'm not very good at aiming.

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Originally Posted by Meko

I really need an anti-lead, since i'm not very good at aiming.

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u really need an anti lead but you are not good at aiming?
anti lead= u need to aim.
u funny

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Originally Posted by Y0ungJ!ucY

u really need an anti lead but you are not good at aiming?
anti lead= u need to aim.
u funny

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you funny too because leading is a type of aiming too. when playing air fighting games (like in battlefield 1942/vietnam/2) you have to lead to actually hit an other aircraft since bullets don't travel fast enough to hit the target if you precicly aim on it. thats why you have to predict where its going to shoot a lil in front of it. thats original leading. i like gunz because you have to do this skill to kill. removing this skill factor will make the game too easy in my opinion.

i total agree with you pika

I agree with picka, it would be to easy

/chevy

with what pikachu said tho, the further away u were in bf1942, the further u have to lead, but if u were litterally "on there ass" in 1942, you didnt have to lead at all. In gunz, if ur going for a pb you still have to lead long range u have to lead it doesnt change with distance...

Thats the issue with it.

lead room tags? Anti lead mandatory?

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Originally Posted by Pickachuuuu

you funny too because leading is a type of aiming too. when playing air fighting games (like in battlefield 1942/vietnam/2) you have to lead to actually hit an other aircraft since bullets don't travel fast enough to hit the target if you precicly aim on it. thats why you have to predict where its going to shoot a lil in front of it. thats original leading. i like gunz because you have to do this skill to kill. removing this skill factor will make the game too easy in my opinion.

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I agree BUT aircraft in BF2 will be about like 100 feet in the air rather as your fighting opponents in gunz 1 on 1 most likely to be close to your target so anti lead doesn't mean your a baddie lmao I doubt everyone who started gunz on their first day expected LEAD to be inside the game people play FPS to HIT targets.

and miranda honestly kstyle should be challenging for itself already so anti lead wouldn't make it easier to kill people

Lead requires more skill than aiming requires, not only that, on some occasions you can be leading a 100 - 150 ping player and in your eyes be hitting your shots, where as your actually missing almost all of them, i think it'll be better with Anti-Lead and personally i'm really good at leading so its not a biased opinion! :P

Lead is a part of gunz . And somehow I can't imagine it without lead .

well if lead is leading brs no thanks, but think about it if you dont lead you dont have to wait long in duel rooms

lead still wins ;D

I lead with a Sniper, now tell me you ppl cant Lead with your Shotguns that SPREADS its bullet the further the Pellets Travel ...

Too many BRs, anti-lead ftw !

Lead its outdated and it just sucks. Brs with 200 pings cant die...
anti lead beast :)

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Originally Posted by Sylar

Lead its outdated and it just sucks. Brs with 200 pings cant die...
anti lead beast :)

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i cant believe that a oldgen like you is sayin this :<

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Originally Posted by Katsuro

Well, I figured a debate regarding leading would be quite a interesting one to watch.
I'm sure all of you have played a AntiLead server, and I'm sure all of you had the 'wtfbs' moments.

My opinion regarding Lead/AntiLead is I prefer lead servers. Why?
1. In AntiLead servers, there is a higher chance of Shotbots and Aimbots. With no lead systems, It just begs to be abused by cheaters that do use Shotbots or Aimbots. (In case you didn't know the difference, Shotbot is where once your xhair turns 'red' (or is aimed at a person) it will automatically shoot without you having to click. Aimbot is where the xhair will always follow (or sometimes uses a hotkey) a player).

1a. Another thing regarding Shotbots and Aimbots is you never know when a person is Shotboting! It is sometimes quite difficult to tell when someone is using a Shotbot. Because of this, Player reports will start to come in 10x more. I can see the Player Report section becoming mostly reports of people using Shotbots/Aimbots. People could easily say, "oh mai aim just fuxpro qqless". There is even the chance of people that don't even cheat getting banned! Not to mention this would put quite a load onto the staff.

true

2. AntiLead isn't always AntiLead. I'm sure some of you noticed this sometimes. The thing with most AntiLead systems, is it makes up for connection lag. But, When there is also computer or CPU lag (maybe even lag due to a fuxcrap GFX card) the AntiLead system would be useless.

Theres some good antilead around and some bad ones.

3. Balancing isn't the same with AntiLead servers and Lead servers. If a server becomes AntiLead, Weap's like SG's need to be nulled a bit compared to Lead servers. I noticed MOST servers have got the point of a decent balance. But, Look at how long it took for some servers to come up with a decent balance formula for lead servers? Imagine how long it can take for people to figure out a decent balance for AntiLead servers. I mean, Imagine if FGunz because AntiLead.. With the current damage on donor SG's, Two PB's (which isn't hard to do in AntiLead servers) your dead. Maybe ~4 shots of mid-range spam your dead.

So balancing should be done according to antilead. It's not like it's balanced right now either. Just because you're used to it doesn't mean its balanced. You see anyone playing with pistols? I don't, because they are not strong enough, unbalanced. Same goes for just about any weapon beside shotguns and revolvers.

4. Some people like to think of leading as a skill; It gives more depth to the Gunz experience. I'm sure most people would agree that leading isn't always easy. I would say it can be a bit harder then AntiLead sometimes. Think of it like this: With AntiLead, You don't have to guess or aim ahead of the person you are fighting. You don't have to take the other players ping into consideration and can just shoot at the person without a second thought. With lead on the other hand you have to take the users ping into consideration and at the same time, shoot ahead of that person. I know some people may not agree with me on this point but hey, that's what a debate is all about. ;P

Leading sometimes does require extra skill, what it also can cause is lame gameplay such as backpedalling to make the opponent go where you want him to, that way you don't have to lead. More skill is not always rewarded, lead is still a matter of guessing and even a mediocre player can kill the best player in the world with some luck.

5. You also may want to ask yourself why you haven't seen this 'AntiLead' system in many other Online FPS games.

Bullet take time to arrive, not as much as on gunz though. There are not really any games in which you hit people with bullets and they don't hit at all.

Anyway, Because of these points I'm against AntiLead servers. You people also may want to note, Haven't you noticed the increase of players in-game recently? I think it is related to a lot of the servers going AntiLead. There is quite a few people out there that prefer to lead then watch Gunz turn into another horribad FPS/TPS with even more horribad graphics.

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I've been playing now and then, amount of players is in decline, the amount is not increasing at all.

My last statement(just like yours :P); There is quite a few people out there that prefer to hit then watch gunz be a horribad fps/tps with even more horribad graphics. :P.



Also to all the people that say leading requires more skill then aiming, please think. I'm gonna tell you guys this, no one on this server is good at leading, or perhaps they are good but still only hit very few shots. Most of the shots that are hit are hit because of forcing the enemy to go somewhere where its easy to hit him. Think corridors,corners. You know where your opponent is going to be and thats it. Aiming is to be perfected, and has much less to do with luck. = Higher skillcap.

You never noticed?
Actually more br's are joining > 200-300 ping > epic hard to lead.
And with anti lead much more ppl. would join.
Exemple: look at hg, its full of br, but all are joining it for anti lead.

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Originally Posted by Akiro

You never noticed?
Actually more br's are joining > 200-300 ping > epic hard to lead.
And with anti lead much more ppl. would join.
Exemple: look at hg, its full of br, but all are joining it for anti lead.

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It's a good server. And the anti-lead makes it enjoyable for people outside the spanish regions.