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  1. #1
    Bunny's Avatar To bunny or not to be

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    Several reports (including mine in the past, and recently zabu's), were subject to be declined regardless of their legitimacy because the reporting individual did not record the round/event that the subject is about.

    Since staff members are essentially required to auto-record everything (an unwritten rule, i believe), a question arises; why are players required to provide evidence and cannot count on the accused staff member to provide them?

    This is basically a system of proven until found innocent because the accused always has access to proof, and there are several arguments to this topic, but I want to address the main ones;
    • One could use the excuse that it's not logical that accused staff members have to work so hard on every little report that is made to find the relevant recording, so why not decline irrelevant reports or be forced to provide recordings for serious accusations, basing only on the accusations made by the player? For example;
      • If a player reports for an irrelevant reason and asks the accused staff member to provide a recording, the recording wouldn't be relevant because even if it showed what the player stated, it would not matter because the reason is irrelevant.
      • If the report reason was relevant and it was a serious accusation that would prove to require an apology/punishment/refund, have the staff member post the recording(s).
    • The literal only reason I can come up with (that is relevant to this discussion) for staff to be auto recording events is for this exact scenario. If proof exists that can determine an outcome of a serious accusation as stated above, why hide the proof?
    • Is the staff team, by demanding that players provide their own recordings, forcing said players to be in the mindset that they join every event with an already existing intent to find something wrong with the event, and enjoy the satisfaction in reporting?


    I believe that considering the last point, staff members would get reported less in a situation where they must provide their own replays (considering the less effort required by a player to report), instead of having players report them, because if you essentially enforce players to record themselves, they would already have the replays and have an easy trigger with posting them and posting reports even if irrelevant. If players knew that only serious accusations would be properly handled, they wouldn't report as much.


    I would also like to address a second point; why are so many staff reports with legitimate accusations that were proven true repeatedly answered with "We as the staff team are sorry, etc"?


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  3. #2
    Dave's Avatar 1' or 1=1--

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    You report them, you provide the evidence.
    It's a terrible thing, I think, in life to wait until you're ready.
    I have this feeling now that actually no one is ever ready to do anything.
    There is almost no such thing as ready. There is only now.
    And you may as well do it now. Generally speaking, now is as good a time as any.

  4. #3
    Bunny's Avatar To bunny or not to be

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    Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    You report them, you provide the evidence.
    Then why are they (technically) required to auto-record?

  5. #4
    Dave's Avatar 1' or 1=1--

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    Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    Then why are they (technically) required to auto-record?
    What makes you think that?
    It's a terrible thing, I think, in life to wait until you're ready.
    I have this feeling now that actually no one is ever ready to do anything.
    There is almost no such thing as ready. There is only now.
    And you may as well do it now. Generally speaking, now is as good a time as any.

  6. #5
    Freestyler

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    Not everyone records, you don't join an event with that mindset; that the host will fok u up in someway. Why would the user report lies? the user must've felt he/she is done wrong hence the report is made with words. If you guys dont make ur staff auto-record then why do i always see them saying ' i will check replay later', when things get wrong.

    in the past staff reports were not common but when a particular user had reported the staff then the staff did show the evidence and tried to convey their perspective. I dont see why the same cannot be done nowadays? it simply looks like u guys dont want to get into drama and avoid punishing ur staff.
    Their are plenty out there who can easily replace ur current staff. no harm in deleting em/
    HHHHhHHHHhHHHHhhhHHHhHhHHHHhHHhHhhhhHhhHHHHHHHHhhhhHhhhHHhHhH Br

  7. #6
    Dave's Avatar 1' or 1=1--

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    If you truly want to report a staff member, you can put the effort into it. We're not going to dig through screenshots and replays of a staff member just to figure out if you're right or wrong if you don't present a good case first.

    It's not going to be made a requirement.
    It's a terrible thing, I think, in life to wait until you're ready.
    I have this feeling now that actually no one is ever ready to do anything.
    There is almost no such thing as ready. There is only now.
    And you may as well do it now. Generally speaking, now is as good a time as any.

  8. #7
    Bunny's Avatar To bunny or not to be

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    Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    What makes you think that?
    The fact that all of them have been doing it for years now, and that their reasoning is almost always to protect themselves in these exact situations. The fact is that NOT auto-recording can cause a lot of issues for a staff member, which is why he would auto-record regardless of whether or not he is forced to provide a replay in a report. If hes already auto-recording and able to provide the recordings whenever, then why do players have to record too? I just wish there was a better argument than "You report, you provide the replays.". The replays are there, just not available to every player.

    Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    If you truly want to report a staff member, you can put the effort into it. We're not going to dig through screenshots and replays of a staff member just to figure out if you're right or wrong if you don't present a good case first.

    It's not going to be made a requirement.
    I stated in my OP that it shouldnt be a requirement, unless a good case is presented first.

  9. #8
    Complaint's Avatar New Member

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    Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    You report them, you provide the evidence.
    this is just wrong...
    how are we suppose to know when a staff member will make a mistake that requires us to report them?
    we have 3 options:
    1. we record every single event and look for every little mistake so we can report(btw the only complaint i see from staff member about reports is "don't look for every little mistake we make so you can go and report us", this option will lead to exactly that.)
    2. we don't record, and every single report we make will get declined on the spot.
    3. asking for an ET to provide the report in event related reports will be allowed as long as there is a reason for that.

    Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    If you truly want to report a staff member, you can put the effort into it. We're not going to dig through screenshots and replays of a staff member just to figure out if you're right or wrong if you don't present a good case first.

    It's not going to be made a requirement.
    honestly you are missing the point, we don't report because we want someone to get into trouble, we report because we think someone did us wrong and we want someone to look into that. do you think we just wake up in the morning and be like umm imma report an ET today?

    how are we(the community) suppose to trust you when we get our reports declined we weren't recording at the time? do you think we know when something like this is going to happen? and when something like this happens it's our fault for not recording?

  10. #9
    McSic's Avatar L e a d e r

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    Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    basically a system of proven until found innocent
    sounds great! /s

    Proven guilty until found innocent? Not the world I want to live in.

    Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    If you truly want to report a staff member, you can put the effort into it. We're not going to dig through screenshots and replays of a staff member just to figure out if you're right or wrong if you don't present a good case first.

    It's not going to be made a requirement.
    This.

    Players just like staff members are always considered innocent unless you, the person that reports, provides enough proof that shows that the reported user is guilty. You could call it presumption of innocence.

    Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    I would also like to address a second point; why are so many staff reports with legitimate accusations that were proven true repeatedly answered with "We as the staff team are sorry, etc"?
    I don't understand your question. Do you expect the staff team not to be sorry for mistakes that were made? Or not to say that we're sorry? Apart from most reports being minor, do you expect us to demote staff for simple mistakes (possibly so you can step in)? We're not going to do that.

    Staff members talk to each other and discuss topics, reports and mistakes. We point out mistakes and try to stop others from repeating them. Remember that this job is done voluntarily and they put in their free time to make the game better, keep it alive and bring joy to the players. It seems like some of the reporters forget that and lose all respect for the job these people do voluntarily.

    - - -

    Humans make mistakes. Mistakes are human. Nobody is perfect. You know the drill.
    You can get somebody else to do a job but he will still be human and do mistakes at one point or another.

    End of the story is: We don't, and we are not going to, ask players or staff members to provide proof for reports that are about them. If you report someone and don't provide the proof, the report is declined due to lack of proof. If the reported user decides to help you out by providing replays for the report, it is his own decision - but it is not, and will never be, obligatory. Same rules for all reports.
    Need help? Send me a PM

    - - -



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