Fix the toxic daggers or give the ability to ban them in Glad

[McSic]

Oh okay gotcha.

Other than myself,has there been posts even videos regarding how "over powered" daggers are?
I guess what i'm asking is,where are all the other cries for daggers being broken.

Who else is playing daggers and doing their best in gladiator matches with them? Because i truly believe im the only person winning consistently.

I stream it everyday and it's great content.

Not many people now can say they've streaked with a rusty dagger.

Yeah, people barely play daggers. Always did. But many Gladiators don't use any other than 15 dmg Rusty Sword anyway.

I first noticed the need for a piercing ratio nerf when watching your stream.

[Moh]

Yeah, people barely play daggers. Always did. But many Gladiators don't use any other than 15 dmg Rusty Sword anyway.

I first noticed the need for a piercing ratio nerf when watching your stream.

Oh you watch me on twitch.tv/sinbad1337

Either way the proposed 18 damage and peirce reduction seems fair.

I just want things to be fair,i hope i wont get kicked for using the nerfed rusty dagger.

[Valde]

Feel like daggers are fine right now outside of glad so maybe create a [V] specifically for glad rooms, pretty sure the gun community is less snow flaky and agrees with the major disadvantages to using dagger vs sword, especially when in normal rooms I've started to see more d-stylists giving the game a bit more variety again.

[Tenax]

I will only say this. Swords can block Daggers can't, you call yourself a gladder and can't block a dagger? Get out!!!

It is kind of difficult now so no, you can't simply "block" it. Daggers are OP. Which they will be nerfed anyway, thank God.
And you have a point about people kicking peddlers who are stalling, or laggers, spikers or whatnot.
Kicking people with element is no longer an option since you have the Glad option.
And kicking people who are using daggers, is like me being kicked from a duel room for using sprayer. ( Which I do because I aim better with sprayers. Not to troll.) That's bs. Maybe that player plays only with daggers too.
However, using a certain tag to limit certain weapons just like they do with gunners, isn't that bad, but then again, it isn't necessary too, seeing that daggers are going to be nerfed and not many players use them.

[Malikb0ss]

care to explain how you came up with this marvelous math?

27 damage high level daggers vs a gladiator with 100hp/48 ap.
15 damage rusty sword vs someone tanking to 140hp/120+ap. Rusty does 9 dmg to HP, 6 to AP per slash.

The problem isn't just the insane dagger damage that matches op/piss swords, its their base rusty dagger still doing nearly 10 dmg more vs base sword as well.
Combine that with having a nearly full iframe Alt-fire attack that does 2x dmg with a giant moving aoe hitbox(elunge)

There's just a flat out balancing issue. It's somewhat mitigated by using Vanilla tag to avoid tanking, but there is still the damage.

[Qwin]

care to explain how you came up with this marvelous math?

Here's some math for you. 10 hits with a rusty sword vs around 150 total has been calculated as the standard for gladiator for a decade. On FG this means any 2 pieces of armor, no rings and 'daggers' only need to poke for about half of that.

7-8 hits, kills with the lowest 'rusty dagger' against full armor + rings.
VS
15 hits, kills with a rusty sword against full armor + rings

If you factor in the fact there's also donor armor like VIP sets then Malik's statement isnt even hyperbole, and would likely take 17 hits easily. Just as much as a higher level or donor dagger would take 7 hits or less vs the same armor. You can say "JUST USE MORE ARMOR" But this is ignorant and barely makes a difference and you can die from a 'dagger' while still having 40+ AP in the bar.

Even if you get a stronger sword, the 'dagger' has the advantage as it cuts through AP like butter with the hardcoded armor piercing ratio, so it makes very little difference how much AP someone uses against a bizzaro world shura 'dagger'. No one needed McSic to chime in to understand this fact, it's been known over a decade on the differences between the weapon classes.

The equivalent of what Moh or other 'dagger' users is doing would be someone going full tank vs an entire room of nude or nearly nude players as it takes 6-7 hits to kill with rusty slashes against someone who has no ap, everyone would agree that this would be stupid to need to do double the amount of hits every single time vs a single player.

Couple that with the new absurd range of 'daggers' and we have a weapon thats just as or more toxic than donor swords or flips and can dish out free punishment at minimal risk with heavy pedal via abusing the range of a 'dagger' which can be seen over and over like a one trick pony.

[Qwin]

I know right, 6 pokes = death, gosh i swore swords can block making the daggers use more pokes to kill someone off, gosh can a dagger block too so they don't get hit 100% of the time too and die quicker than sword users.

To the ignorant players like this who say JUST BLOCK!

April 'dagger' range, speed and damage of a constant left click spam easily forces anyone playing against a 'dagger' to be at an unreasonable disadvantage from a constant long range threat that can end matchups with 1-2 miss-fires of a massive with a few pokes.

Recoil is a core part of melee, as is skill in avoiding recoil. The April 'daggers' essentially negate that, as it takes FAR more to recoil someone spamming 'daggers' with long range, vs any player with a sword. A block can easily be tripped by the range and speed of a dagger making them a fully offensive spam people have limited options to deal with. Tap blocking vs a dagger stills forces you into a disadvantage in this state, putting someone under constant pressure is considered a skill in glad but it takes very little to do so with April 'daggers'.

Now maybe you will understand why no one is impressed over broken weapons streaking anything, or 'daggers' with as high kills in zerker because anyone playing with 'daggers' is using an extreme handicap, which is why they are being kicked and will be continued to be barred from glad.

This is not an instance of only 1 player being targeted over it, it's been seen in glad cw as well as in private games that 'dagger' melee has a high advantage since April over anyone using a sword. Why 'dagger's doing anything equal as a sword will still hold the advantage in dps and deserves hard nerf across the board.

In the past daggers had a significant disadvantage across the board, so tanking was allowed but this is no longer the case, yet 'dagger' users still tank and hold no respect for the community rules and people like Moh bringing maniac ego into it demanding people play with them or summon a GM to protect them from being kicked, argue with the community or dish out bans. Just toxic.

[Bunny]

Here's some math for you. 10 hits with a rusty sword vs around 150 total has been calculated as the standard for gladiator for a decade. On FG this means any 2 pieces of armor, no rings and 'daggers' only need to poke for about half of that.

7-8 hits, kills with the lowest 'rusty dagger' against full armor + rings.
VS
15 hits, kills with a rusty sword against full armor + rings

If you factor in the fact there's also donor armor like VIP sets then Malik's statement isnt even hyperbole, and would likely take 17 hits easily. Just as much as a higher level or donor dagger would take 7 hits or less vs the same armor. You can say "JUST USE MORE ARMOR" But this is ignorant and barely makes a difference and you can die from a 'dagger' while still having 40+ AP in the bar.

Even if you get a stronger sword, the 'dagger' has the advantage as it cuts through AP like butter with the hardcoded armor piercing ratio, so it makes very little difference how much AP someone uses against a bizzaro world shura 'dagger'. No one needed McSic to chime in to understand this fact, it's been known over a decade on the differences between the weapon classes.

The equivalent of what Moh or other 'dagger' users is doing would be someone going full tank vs an entire room of nude or nearly nude players as it takes 6-7 hits to kill with rusty slashes against someone who has no ap, everyone would agree that this would be stupid to need to do double the amount of hits every single time vs a single player.

Couple that with the new absurd range of 'daggers' and we have a weapon thats just as or more toxic than donor swords or flips and can dish out free punishment at minimal risk with heavy pedal via abusing the range of a 'dagger' which can be seen over and over like a one trick pony.

your entire argument is invalid. you compare full vip/donor armor with 17 slashes on rusty to a nude user getting killed by a dagger to support your statement. your armor piercing argument is especially pointless when you tell people you barely have any armor on as youre wearing only 2 armor pieces.

[Qwin]

your entire argument is invalid. you compare full vip/donor armor with 17 slashes on rusty to a nude user getting killed by a dagger to support your statement. your armor piercing argument is especially pointless when you tell people you barely have any armor on as youre wearing only 2 armor pieces.

You don't read very well do you? The entire aspect of daggers having high armor piercing ratio makes any number of low ap vs high ap totally irrelevant you at best get to survive 1 more hit if you chose to wear 100 ap vs 40ap because daggers largely ignore ap. This was already tested out and confirmed in private games.

[Bunny]

27 damage high level daggers vs a gladiator with 100hp/48 ap.
15 damage rusty sword vs someone tanking to 140hp/120+ap. Rusty does 9 dmg to HP, 6 to AP per slash.

There's just a flat out balancing issue.

If you're comparing a 100hp/48ap player using a 15 dmg rusty vs a 140hp/120ap player using a 27 damage HIGH LEVEL dagger the problem isnt with balancing, its with the players and what they chose to equip.
In this case the V tag is important to implement, but not otherwise.

You don't read very well do you? The entire aspect of daggers having high armor piercing ratio makes any number of low ap vs high ap totally irrelevant you at best get to survive 1 more hit if you chose to wear 100 ap vs 40ap because daggers largely ignore ap. This was already tested out and confirmed in private games.

With the piercing rate change that mcsic suggested (0.7->0.6), this shouldn't be a problem. But when you kick someone for using a dagger on you, do it because they have more hp and a non-rusty weapon, not because you think a rusty sword user with 100ap40ap should beat a 27 dmg dagger user with 140hp/120ap.