Fix the toxic daggers or give the ability to ban them in Glad

[Qwin]

I know right, 6 pokes = death, gosh i swore swords can block making the daggers use more pokes to kill someone off, gosh can a dagger block too so they don't get hit 100% of the time too and die quicker than sword users.

To the ignorant players like this who say JUST BLOCK!

April 'dagger' range, speed and damage of a constant left click spam easily forces anyone playing against a 'dagger' to be at an unreasonable disadvantage from a constant long range threat that can end matchups with 1-2 miss-fires of a massive with a few pokes.

Recoil is a core part of melee, as is skill in avoiding recoil. The April 'daggers' essentially negate that, as it takes FAR more to recoil someone spamming 'daggers' with long range, vs any player with a sword. A block can easily be tripped by the range and speed of a dagger making them a fully offensive spam people have limited options to deal with. Tap blocking vs a dagger stills forces you into a disadvantage in this state, putting someone under constant pressure is considered a skill in glad but it takes very little to do so with April 'daggers'.

Now maybe you will understand why no one is impressed over broken weapons streaking anything, or 'daggers' with as high kills in zerker because anyone playing with 'daggers' is using an extreme handicap, which is why they are being kicked and will be continued to be barred from glad.

This is not an instance of only 1 player being targeted over it, it's been seen in glad cw as well as in private games that 'dagger' melee has a high advantage since April over anyone using a sword. Why 'dagger's doing anything equal as a sword will still hold the advantage in dps and deserves hard nerf across the board.

In the past daggers had a significant disadvantage across the board, so tanking was allowed but this is no longer the case, yet 'dagger' users still tank and hold no respect for the community rules and people like Moh bringing maniac ego into it demanding people play with them or summon a GM to protect them from being kicked, argue with the community or dish out bans. Just toxic.

[Malikb0ss]

care to explain how you came up with this marvelous math?

27 damage high level daggers vs a gladiator with 100hp/48 ap.
15 damage rusty sword vs someone tanking to 140hp/120+ap. Rusty does 9 dmg to HP, 6 to AP per slash.

The problem isn't just the insane dagger damage that matches op/piss swords, its their base rusty dagger still doing nearly 10 dmg more vs base sword as well.
Combine that with having a nearly full iframe Alt-fire attack that does 2x dmg with a giant moving aoe hitbox(elunge)

There's just a flat out balancing issue. It's somewhat mitigated by using Vanilla tag to avoid tanking, but there is still the damage.

[Qwin]

care to explain how you came up with this marvelous math?

Here's some math for you. 10 hits with a rusty sword vs around 150 total has been calculated as the standard for gladiator for a decade. On FG this means any 2 pieces of armor, no rings and 'daggers' only need to poke for about half of that.

7-8 hits, kills with the lowest 'rusty dagger' against full armor + rings.
VS
15 hits, kills with a rusty sword against full armor + rings

If you factor in the fact there's also donor armor like VIP sets then Malik's statement isnt even hyperbole, and would likely take 17 hits easily. Just as much as a higher level or donor dagger would take 7 hits or less vs the same armor. You can say "JUST USE MORE ARMOR" But this is ignorant and barely makes a difference and you can die from a 'dagger' while still having 40+ AP in the bar.

Even if you get a stronger sword, the 'dagger' has the advantage as it cuts through AP like butter with the hardcoded armor piercing ratio, so it makes very little difference how much AP someone uses against a bizzaro world shura 'dagger'. No one needed McSic to chime in to understand this fact, it's been known over a decade on the differences between the weapon classes.

The equivalent of what Moh or other 'dagger' users is doing would be someone going full tank vs an entire room of nude or nearly nude players as it takes 6-7 hits to kill with rusty slashes against someone who has no ap, everyone would agree that this would be stupid to need to do double the amount of hits every single time vs a single player.

Couple that with the new absurd range of 'daggers' and we have a weapon thats just as or more toxic than donor swords or flips and can dish out free punishment at minimal risk with heavy pedal via abusing the range of a 'dagger' which can be seen over and over like a one trick pony.

[Bunny]

Here's some math for you. 10 hits with a rusty sword vs around 150 total has been calculated as the standard for gladiator for a decade. On FG this means any 2 pieces of armor, no rings and 'daggers' only need to poke for about half of that.

7-8 hits, kills with the lowest 'rusty dagger' against full armor + rings.
VS
15 hits, kills with a rusty sword against full armor + rings

If you factor in the fact there's also donor armor like VIP sets then Malik's statement isnt even hyperbole, and would likely take 17 hits easily. Just as much as a higher level or donor dagger would take 7 hits or less vs the same armor. You can say "JUST USE MORE ARMOR" But this is ignorant and barely makes a difference and you can die from a 'dagger' while still having 40+ AP in the bar.

Even if you get a stronger sword, the 'dagger' has the advantage as it cuts through AP like butter with the hardcoded armor piercing ratio, so it makes very little difference how much AP someone uses against a bizzaro world shura 'dagger'. No one needed McSic to chime in to understand this fact, it's been known over a decade on the differences between the weapon classes.

The equivalent of what Moh or other 'dagger' users is doing would be someone going full tank vs an entire room of nude or nearly nude players as it takes 6-7 hits to kill with rusty slashes against someone who has no ap, everyone would agree that this would be stupid to need to do double the amount of hits every single time vs a single player.

Couple that with the new absurd range of 'daggers' and we have a weapon thats just as or more toxic than donor swords or flips and can dish out free punishment at minimal risk with heavy pedal via abusing the range of a 'dagger' which can be seen over and over like a one trick pony.

your entire argument is invalid. you compare full vip/donor armor with 17 slashes on rusty to a nude user getting killed by a dagger to support your statement. your armor piercing argument is especially pointless when you tell people you barely have any armor on as youre wearing only 2 armor pieces.

[Qwin]

your entire argument is invalid. you compare full vip/donor armor with 17 slashes on rusty to a nude user getting killed by a dagger to support your statement. your armor piercing argument is especially pointless when you tell people you barely have any armor on as youre wearing only 2 armor pieces.

You don't read very well do you? The entire aspect of daggers having high armor piercing ratio makes any number of low ap vs high ap totally irrelevant you at best get to survive 1 more hit if you chose to wear 100 ap vs 40ap because daggers largely ignore ap. This was already tested out and confirmed in private games.

[Qwin]

I believe i am the only reason why there should be a dagger nerf. I believe they are too strong and need reduction in damage. Although i will STILL beat any and every gladiator. Even with blocking. No one is trolling with daggers,sworders are a little upset someone else is winning. Sorry for changing the meta so fast on you. If what i say isnt true; show me someone else who is streaking everyday with daggers.
Show me someone who streams out smarting sworders everyday.
Like i said i accept the challenge.

Lets ask this. If you are such a "Godly dstyler" as you claim, where were you years ago in glad rooms when 'daggers' werent completely busted until recently? We both know the answer, you were never streaking anything or even a threat or had a name or rep to anyone in glad games until the April patch which made them toxic and gave you an over-inflated ego.

Please take a seat, you are nothing more than fueled with hot air, just listen to yourself "IM THE ONLY REASON!" You didnt change the meta, you're doing nothing at all anymore than people using an element as a crutch 'changed the meta' and was barred from glad immediately.

The fact is there's been multiple cases of people intentionally trolling with them has been a reoccurring factor ruining games many times already. You're just are enabled by a totally broken item balance. But at least we agree on that they should be nerfed or banned from glad rooms. The April buff was a try, but ultimately a failure in balance. Whats more toxic is the staff reaction to glads kicking people using 'daggers' because they are busted and then dishing out warnings or bans.

[Moh]

Lets ask this. If you are such a "Godly dstyler" as you claim, where were you years ago in glad rooms when 'daggers' werent completely busted until recently? We both know the answer, you were never streaking anything or even a threat or had a name or rep to anyone in glad games until the April patch which made them toxic and gave you an over-inflated ego.

Please take a seat, you are nothing more than fueled with hot air, just listen to yourself "IM THE ONLY REASON!" You didnt change the meta, you're doing nothing at all anymore than people using an element as a crutch 'changed the meta' and was barred from glad immediately.

The fact is there's been multiple cases of people intentionally trolling with them has been a reoccurring factor ruining games many times already. You're just are enabled by a totally broken item balance. But at least we agree on that they should be nerfed or banned from glad rooms. The April buff was a try, but ultimately a failure in balance. Whats more toxic is the staff reaction to glads kicking people using 'daggers' because they are busted and then dishing out warnings or bans.

You're completely false,i have never had an interest in gladiator. It's interesting to me lately but now i see it's not favorable among the glads. How do you even call yourself a gladiator when you refuse to play daggers.

Btw i have endless videos of me winning gladiator matches before the update in april. I streamed it on twitch.tv/sinbad1337. No one complained until i started streakint 50-10

[Dunkin]

Lets ask this. If you are such a "Godly dstyler" as you claim, where were you years ago in glad rooms when 'daggers' werent completely busted until recently? We both know the answer, you were never streaking anything or even a threat or had a name or rep to anyone in glad games until the April patch which made them toxic and gave you an over-inflated ego.

Please take a seat, you are nothing more than fueled with hot air, just listen to yourself "IM THE ONLY REASON!" You didnt change the meta, you're doing nothing at all anymore than people using an element as a crutch 'changed the meta' and was barred from glad immediately.

The fact is there's been multiple cases of people intentionally trolling with them has been a reoccurring factor ruining games many times already. You're just are enabled by a totally broken item balance. But at least we agree on that they should be nerfed or banned from glad rooms. The April buff was a try, but ultimately a failure in balance. Whats more toxic is the staff reaction to glads kicking people using 'daggers' because they are busted and then dishing out warnings or bans.

You're completely false,i have never had an interest in gladiator. It's interesting to me lately but now i see it's not favorable among the glads. How do you even call yourself a gladiator when you refuse to play daggers.

Btw i have endless videos of me winning gladiator matches before the update in april. I streamed it on twitch.tv/sinbad1337. No one complained until i started streakint 50-10

Hello Moh and Qwin,

I do see you guys have different and conflicting ideologies, please refrain from arguing and post solutions and SUGGESTIONS as this is a Suggestions page.
We do understand that all of you guys have concerns but arguing and causing conflict will not result in a solution. You may comment on each others suggestions but please do it in a ordinary fashion.

[Moh]

Hello Moh and Qwin,

I do see you guys have different and conflicting ideologies, please refrain from arguing and post solutions and SUGGESTIONS as this is a Suggestions page.
We do understand that all of you guys have concerns but arguing and causing conflict will not result in a solution. You may comment on each others suggestions but please do it in a ordinary fashion.

Reduce rusty dagger to 15 damage. That way rustys would be a thing. Its too high sitting at 23 and the delay is already slow as can be with 366. If i joined a glad room with a rusty dagger it should be allowed.

[Qwin]

This is stupid, since when glad is Sword only? It's like saying PvP is SG only, and because this rest of weapons should be nerfed. So i believe the daggers are good as they are right now. Anyway, if it's really annoy the daggers on glad (which i don't understand because swords can block while daggers can't),
just suggest a tag of Sword Only and u have this solved. Don't need to nerf daggers just because some sword ppl can't block a dagger.

Since the beginning, do you live under a rock? I am not talking about gladiator as a game mode of melee only but what players have played with community established rules for over a decade.

The reason daggers were rarely if ever seen in gladiator was because they were a meme, easily outclassed by swords until the April patch which broke them. Kodachis were acceptable, the expectation was the same as with Rusty swords 15 dmg or less.

But beyond that what do you have? Lswords are another weapon that was barred from glad and will get you kicked just as much as the 'daggers' for similar reasons. It's only recently with the April version of daggers thats causing the conflict with warnings and bans due to bad balancing and strife with the community vs staff. I don't throw around the word 'toxic' much but this is a clear case of it.