Atheism.

[Marcus]

First off, I dont usually like to get into debates about religion, only generates conflicts, but wucas, you seemed to have a few questions, so I will answer them.



The big bang theory is more a theory, as it says it, not a fact. But it's the closest we've got from our current proofs. Religion comes from nowhere. Peoples just "thought it up", to explain phenomenons that they could not yet understand. There is no proof that god ever existed. It is not for us to find god doesn't exist, but for religion to find proofs god exist. I could say "I am god, prove me wrong" and I would stand on the same point as religion, while having as solid arguments. There is a multitude of religions also, making it even less likely that one would be true.




Because science base itselfs on facts, observation and the such. Religion comes from faith and beleif, it has no rationnal origin (for example: a dragon vs a rock).




Religion is an old concept that was created to explain phenomenons which we could not yet understand. For example, ghosts have been imagined after seeing gas coming out of the cemetery grounds. Making whitish looking shapes. But we now know that it is a chemical reaction with the decomposition of the body. Same kind of pattern for the religion. So, as it goes, religion is more "medieval" if you prefer.


Now from a stand alone point. This is a funny little thing to think about. There is a galaxy located 13 billion light-years away from earth. From the light-years definition, it means it took light 13 billion years to reach us. Therefore we couldn't see it before 13 billion years after it sent it's first light towards us. If the universe was created in 7 days, how do you suppose the light ever got to the earth? (especially considering our universe is a few thousands years old "apparently")

Where are the dinosaurs in the religion?

Also, funny mental puzzle: If god can do anything, can he make a rock that he cannot lift? Oh... paradox. Now, let's take this question into reality, could he really do it if he existed? Think about it.

This is the kind of question you get when religion intertwines with reality, because it does not originate from it. It comes from the mind. You never saw a bird pray at an altar either.

I'll leave it at that, religion is a good belief, if it makes you feel better or more confident in your life, using it might help you, so choose whichever you want.

-Jawarisin

PS: Just for you wucas

LOL you sir just went hard. +1 Aethism LOL

[Wucas Pls]

The big bang theory is more a theory, as it says it, not a fact. But it's the closest we've got from our current proofs. Religion comes from nowhere. Peoples just "thought it up", to explain phenomenons that they could not yet understand. There is no proof that god ever existed. It is not for us to find god doesn't exist, but for religion to find proofs god exist. I could say "I am god, prove me wrong" and I would stand on the same point as religion, while having as solid arguments. There is a multitude of religions also, making it even less likely that one would be true.

This is all speculating on the fact that there is no proof a religious deity exists. People continually ask "Why does God not show us himself, then everyone would believe," but really, wouldn't that take away what it means to be human: the ability to choose? Also, if we can just assume for a minute that there is a God, what has humanity done that deserves his attention? We are insignificant, yet demand audience with the creator of everything, isn't that just silly. The recordings of religious texts spanned over the course of thousands of years, cherry picking the best teachings and recording them as scripture. Also, the men listed as prophets and teachers were the best of the best, again, over the course of thousands of years. We are basing all our assumptions (in western culture at least) on 600 years of history, that is too small of a scale in which to discount thousands of years documented in religious texts.

None of the religions of today preach of a God who thrusts his likeness on the people, but has the people come to the deity, which coincides with the idea that God would not prove his existence to us. It is our duty, no our right as humans to be able to choose to accept his existence.

Also, since you brought up the Big Bang Theory, I would like to add I never said that I disagreed with that theory. The way the universe formed is not what I am discussing, it is whether it just happened or if "God" made it. In my mind science is simply the study of how everything was made by God. The Big Bang, Evolution, etc, does not discount religion, if anything, it solidifies it.

Because science base itselfs on facts, observation and the such. Religion comes from faith and beleif, it has no rationnal origin (for example: a dragon vs a rock).

Religion is an old concept that was created to explain phenomenons which we could not yet understand. For example, ghosts have been imagined after seeing gas coming out of the cemetery grounds. Making whitish looking shapes. But we now know that it is a chemical reaction with the decomposition of the body. Same kind of pattern for the religion. So, as it goes, religion is more "medieval" if you prefer.

Going back to my last comment, this is still speculating that there is no proof religious deities exist. Back in the elder days humanity not only needed more guidance, it also was closer spiritually than we are today. science itself is as irrational as religion, basing all its beliefs on laws we do not fully understand as of now. If you really get down to it, what is rational and what is irrational, you cannot prove anything in this world. 'Reality' is simply our own observations, nothing more: nothing less.

Now from a stand alone point. This is a funny little thing to think about. There is a galaxy located 13 billion light-years away from earth. From the light-years definition, it means it took light 13 billion years to reach us. Therefore we couldn't see it before 13 billion years after it sent it's first light towards us. If the universe was created in 7 days, how do you suppose the light ever got to the earth? (especially considering our universe is a few thousands years old "apparently")

It would be foolish to accept that God is held by the restrictions of time, seeing as he made the universe (which includes time...). Also note that 'day' is man made, the first 'day' could not of occurred until after the creation of the earth, occurring after light and dark were created, on the second 'day' listed in Genesis. God exists outside of this plane of existence, and thus 7 days is simply a metaphor for a unit of time. Ancient Hebrew has very few words that coincide with time as well, so day could easily be understood by all generation, separating the order in which things were created. The fact remains the importance of Genesis chapter 1 isn't the 'day', it is the order in which things were created.

Where are the dinosaurs in the religion?

The Hebrey word "tanniym/tanniyn", translated usually as "dragon/dragons" respectively are listed 28 times in the Old Testament. They are usually related to sea creatures. I don't see how this is related though, modern day society first discovered dinosaur fossils in 1822, and as I spoke of before, the 'days' in Genesis were completely metaphoric.

Also, funny mental puzzle: If god can do anything, can he make a rock that he cannot lift? Oh... paradox. Now, let's take this question into reality, could he really do it if he existed? Think about it.

Irrelevant, god does not live in this plane of existence. Creating something he cannot lift would accept he is tied to our dimensions which cannot be true.


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LOL you sir just went hard. +1 Aethism LOL

Debate is one of my favorite things to do, I have never claimed defeat as of this point. Going hard means nothing to me, rather, I enjoy people pushing me to the limit.

[Linda]

Actually, people did think up religion lmao. God didn't create religion, people did. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr5lY0TcdAw

[Steff]

This is all speculating on the fact that there is no proof a religious deity exists. People continually ask "Why does God not show us himself, then everyone would believe," but really, wouldn't that take away what it means to be human: the ability to choose? Also, if we can just assume for a minute that there is a God, what has humanity done that deserves his attention? We are insignificant, yet demand audience with the creator of everything, isn't that just silly. The recordings of religious texts spanned over the course of thousands of years, cherry picking the best teachings and recording them as scripture. Also, the men listed as prophets and teachers were the best of the best, again, over the course of thousands of years. We are basing all our assumptions (in western culture at least) on 600 years of history, that is too small of a scale in which to discount thousands of years documented in religious texts.

Well, if God did excist woundt it just be stupid to not show him self? There have been many things just in name of '' Faith '' and I dont mean good things.
And even if he did show him self, woundt you have the choice to follow him? So it woundt take the choosing part of humanity away.

None of the religions of today preach of a God who thrusts his likeness on the people, but has the people come to the deity, which coincides with the idea that God would not prove his existence to us. It is our duty, no our right as humans to be able to choose to accept his existence.

As i said above, Even if he did show him self, we still had a choice to follow him or not.

Also, since you brought up the Big Bang Theory, I would like to add I never said that I disagreed with that theory. The way the universe formed is not what I am discussing, it is whether it just happened or if "God" made it. In my mind science is simply the study of how everything was made by God. The Big Bang, Evolution, etc, does not discount religion, if anything, it solidifies it.
Going back to my last comment, this is still speculating that there is no proof religious deities exist. Back in the elder days humanity not only needed more guidance, it also was closer spiritually than we are today. science itself is as irrational as religion, basing all its beliefs on laws we do not fully understand as of now. If you really get down to it, what is rational and what is irrational, you cannot prove anything in this world. 'Reality' is simply our own observations, nothing more: nothing less.

The Big bang Thoery has been supported by the idea that the universe is still expanding, there will be a time that the earth has no planets near them at all.
Yes, reality is based on our own observation. But doesn't this mean that your yellow can be my green and your ''God'' can be my science so in other words God isn't a person or what so ever it's a creation of our own minds and what we want him to be so its a imagination.

It would be foolish to accept that God is held by the restrictions of time, seeing as he made the universe (which includes time...). Also note that 'day' is man made, the first 'day' could not of occurred until after the creation of the earth, occurring after light and dark were created, on the second 'day' listed in Genesis. God exists outside of this plane of existence, and thus 7 days is simply a metaphor for a unit of time. Ancient Hebrew has very few words that coincide with time as well, so day could easily be understood by all generation, separating the order in which things were created. The fact remains the importance of Genesis chapter 1 isn't the 'day', it is the order in which things were created.
The Hebrey word "tanniym/tanniyn", translated usually as "dragon/dragons" respectively are listed 28 times in the Old Testament. They are usually related to sea creatures. I don't see how this is related though, modern day society first discovered dinosaur fossils in 1822, and as I spoke of before, the 'days' in Genesis were completely metaphoric.
Irrelevant, god does not live in this plane of existence. Creating something he cannot lift would accept he is tied to our dimensions which cannot be true.

Also the part '' He made the unviserse which includes time '' part confused me because time is messured by how long it takes for the earth to get arround the sun. So he did not create that on purpose, man kind choose the definition of time. And the part about dinosaur is because dinosaurs were not mentiont in the bible at all, I never saw a T-Rex in the bible ?
Also, if you have seen the bible it says that the earth has been made in like 7 days if im right. On the first day he created light and darkness, and on the 4th day he created the sun and the moon.
But how did he messure time witouth having a sun? Because time is messured with the sun, if the earth spins one time around the earth its 23 hours 59 minuts and 57 seconds or something.
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Debate is one of my favorite things to do, I have never claimed defeat as of this point. Going hard means nothing to me, rather, I enjoy people pushing me to the limit.[/QUOTE]

[XxChrisxX]

Shut the fk up f@ggot.

If you aren't going to post something that shows a sign of at least ONE brain cell. Shut the **** up.

No one cares, you never believed in god so if you're athiest no1cares.

Every person has a right to their own belief, And honestly if you didn't care you shouldn't have said anything. Therefor you do care.

Wow, you must be really intelligent, "why am I on this forum" Sorry, I never knew this forum was for debating about religions, I guess I'm on the wrong website right? Get the fk outta here with your 14 posts, dumb kid.

As a matter of fact, This forum is half debate, Considering they have a section specifically for things such as this. (Although posted in the wrong section)

__
Ot;

I never thought much of it being an atheist myself, To be honest it's whatever, I am who i am. So yeah, I guess it's okay as long as noone tries to force one to believe-in said religion or beliefs

[Linda]

So uhh no one has checked out yet. o-o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr5lY0TcdAw

[XxChrisxX]

So uhh no one has checked out yet. o-o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr5lY0TcdAw

I tried but he's too damn loud. X'd out.

[Linda]

Lol'd.

[Wucas Pls]

Well, if God did excist woundt it just be stupid to not show him self? There have been many things just in name of '' Faith '' and I dont mean good things.
And even if he did show him self, woundt you have the choice to follow him? So it woundt take the choosing part of humanity away.

First I will say, I am not God so I cannot speak for what would be the best scenario in which he does things. Why he created humanity, why he does not force us to follow him, why he allowed evil to spread: those things are not something I can answer. I am simply a human, a poor excuse for one at that, and I cannot be anything more than that.

I can however say that (as a human) if God showed his presence to us in a way everyone could understand, no, we would not have a choice whether to believe or not. Following is a whole other story, some believe and do not follow, even Lucifer, sitting at God's side as second in command, as well as 1/3 of the angels knew God, but did not follow. God gives us complete control over our lives, but more importantly over our souls, and the choice to accept his existence may not be as important as following him, but it is important all the same.

In short, by showing himself he takes away our choice to accept his existence as such, destroying the meaning of 'humanity'. Even just taking that single choice away from us destroys our purpose, at least that is how I perceive humanity.

The Big bang Thoery has been supported by the idea that the universe is still expanding, there will be a time that the earth has no planets near them at all.
Yes, reality is based on our own observation. But doesn't this mean that your yellow can be my green and your ''God'' can be my science so in other words God isn't a person or what so ever it's a creation of our own minds and what we want him to be so its a imagination.

If that is what you believe, than that reality is yours, but do not get me wrong, your reality is not the only reality.

Each being capable of free, singular thinking has a perceived reality and then there is a pure reality, the one that exists with or without our own perceived realities. In short we can peer through the looking glass and can only see what is in front of us, but that does not mean the rest of the universe simply disappears because we cannot see it.

Also the part '' He made the unviserse which includes time '' part confused me because time is messured by how long it takes for the earth to get arround the sun. So he did not create that on purpose, man kind choose the definition of time. And the part about dinosaur is because dinosaurs were not mentiont in the bible at all, I never saw a T-Rex in the bible ?
Also, if you have seen the bible it says that the earth has been made in like 7 days if im right. On the first day he created light and darkness, and on the 4th day he created the sun and the moon.
But how did he messure time witouth having a sun? Because time is messured with the sun, if the earth spins one time around the earth its 23 hours 59 minuts and 57 seconds or something.

Time was not created by humans, the word 'time' as well as the measure of it was. Time is a fundamental part of the universe; we live in 3 spacial dimensions and 1 time dimension, and to our knowledge that is all that exists. To say time does not exist means there was not past and there is no future, only an eternal 'now', which seeing as I can remember the past, means this cannot be true.

Moving on from there, I will stick to my claim that the word 'day' was just used to separate the creation of things, not as a length in which to measure how long creation actually was. The Hebrew people were not scholars, they were hunter, gatherers, and farmers. Trying to give someone the concept of millions of years is simply impossible, especially to people such as this.

So uhh no one has checked out yet. o-o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr5lY0TcdAw

I watched it and agreed with most of what he had to say.

[Jawarisin]

This is all speculating on the fact that there is no proof a religious deity exists. People continually ask "Why does God not show us himself, then everyone would believe," but really, wouldn't that take away what it means to be human: the ability to choose? Also, if we can just assume for a minute that there is a God, what has humanity done that deserves his attention? We are insignificant, yet demand audience with the creator of everything, isn't that just silly. The recordings of religious texts spanned over the course of thousands of years, cherry picking the best teachings and recording them as scripture. Also, the men listed as prophets and teachers were the best of the best, again, over the course of thousands of years. We are basing all our assumptions (in western culture at least) on 600 years of history, that is too small of a scale in which to discount thousands of years documented in religious texts.

None of the religions of today preach of a God who thrusts his likeness on the people, but has the people come to the deity, which coincides with the idea that God would not prove his existence to us. It is our duty, no our right as humans to be able to choose to accept his existence.

Also, since you brought up the Big Bang Theory, I would like to add I never said that I disagreed with that theory. The way the universe formed is not what I am discussing, it is whether it just happened or if "God" made it. In my mind science is simply the study of how everything was made by God. The Big Bang, Evolution, etc, does not discount religion, if anything, it solidifies it.

Going back to my last comment, this is still speculating that there is no proof religious deities exist. Back in the elder days humanity not only needed more guidance, it also was closer spiritually than we are today. science itself is as irrational as religion, basing all its beliefs on laws we do not fully understand as of now. If you really get down to it, what is rational and what is irrational, you cannot prove anything in this world. 'Reality' is simply our own observations, nothing more: nothing less.

It would be foolish to accept that God is held by the restrictions of time, seeing as he made the universe (which includes time...). Also note that 'day' is man made, the first 'day' could not of occurred until after the creation of the earth, occurring after light and dark were created, on the second 'day' listed in Genesis. God exists outside of this plane of existence, and thus 7 days is simply a metaphor for a unit of time. Ancient Hebrew has very few words that coincide with time as well, so day could easily be understood by all generation, separating the order in which things were created. The fact remains the importance of Genesis chapter 1 isn't the 'day', it is the order in which things were created.
The Hebrey word "tanniym/tanniyn", translated usually as "dragon/dragons" respectively are listed 28 times in the Old Testament. They are usually related to sea creatures. I don't see how this is related though, modern day society first discovered dinosaur fossils in 1822, and as I spoke of before, the 'days' in Genesis were completely metaphoric.
Irrelevant, god does not live in this plane of existence. Creating something he cannot lift would accept he is tied to our dimensions which cannot be true.


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Debate is one of my favorite things to do, I have never claimed defeat as of this point. Going hard means nothing to me, rather, I enjoy people pushing me to the limit.

And so I shall answer since I do enjoy debating, as long as it stays respectful

If you create something, say, a sculpture, don't you watch over it while it's under your care? And if god showing himself was removing us the freedom of choice, wouldn't a rock showing itself remove the ability to choose either it does exist or does not exist? If i come and knock at your door, do I remove your freedom from deciding if I exist or not? We must not be that insignificant if he bothered to create us, don't you think? And scriptures did say he sent angels, his own son and all sorts of things down. So he definitely cares for us if he exist.

If I write a book describing myself as god, and how I am a supreme being. Does it mean that if it's found out 5000-10000 years later, that it must be true and therefore I am a god? There is currently a "Technological boom" going on, so we are obviously having more material regarding discoveries this past 600 years. And does time make anything more true? And since when the prophets were the best, Jesus was a poor uneducated guy. Nostradamus is at the same level, although he did have education.

"Bible 10 commandments: I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other God before me." Big time choice. How would we even be able to figure out he exist if he never appeared or did anything except create us without us knowing?

Evolution proves that one specie was not created like any religion says, but it in fact evolved from another life form. We are not definite creatures created by a being, we are rather the process of a long evolution. Religion depicts us as definite creatures created by one being, without changing.

As a matter of a fact, there is none... That's the problem.

Back in the elder days, the population was not as educated. "Science itself is as irrational as religion" wait what? Science says a wine is fermented grape juice (roughly), and it breaks it apart to see what it's made of. Religion says this is god's son's blood and that's that(Okay symbolism, ill add an extra example just for you <3 ). Religion says the Universe was created by this guy, we look like him obviously, and there's nothing you can say, even if you give me a proof, that would make me think otherwise. "Basing all its beliefs on laws we do not fully understand as of now" 1+1=2 welcome to maths. Fully understandable (for most of us at least). Rationality: "It is a normative concept of reasoning in the sense that rational people should derive conclusions in a consistent way given the ,information at disposal" the key part in this definition is "consistent way given the information at disposal" Religion does not have any "information at disposal" nor is it any consistent. Yeah, reality is our observation and what we can deduce... So what? You would base yourself on your imagination maybe?

It says days, not unit of time. And see it this way, let's just assume that "day" is a undetermined amount of time, but that's it's always the same. Basically, a day= a day. A day does not change length Thereforce, if it had to be roughly 1.5 billion yeards (and a little more). Per "day", considering plants were created before animals, and that animals were created on a different "day". How did plants such as carnivorous plants survive during 1.5 billion years. Plants whos reproduction depends on insects such as bees would be extinct. Days are 24 hour long, even the bible will say it when it describes day/night.

We don't have the same definition of dinosaur. Could you give me one accurate picture in the Bible or any of the such, of a dinosaur? And any story related to one? I honestly don't think you could.

Well, he can do anything anyways, so he can come into our plane and test it out. Then tell me, if god were to came to our plane of existance, and create an object he couldn't lift (etc etc). Now what?

Cordially,
-Jawarisin

PS: Color codes were used to facilitate comprehension, I suggest you re-read the corresponding color argument.