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  1. #1
    Sonji's Avatar Dapper AF

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    Well I just got from my Youth Conference and they showed this video so I want to know what do you guys think, what's your opinion.



    Let me Know your mind pls.

  2. #2
    Ommadawn's Avatar Bird + Trash = ?

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    In my opinion there is something powerful above us in the sky. Not sure if it’s actually a god or sort of an angel, but I’m coming from a religion country who believe in God. I believe that there is someone up there in the sky we cannot even imagine how he looks like or what he can do.
    If you think about that, that’s like asking whether you believe in aliens or not. There are no actual proofs of their existence, it’s your choice whether to believe it or not.

  3. #3
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    Show me evidence a deity exists. I don't spout something I can't back up. It's not about what I think, it's about what I can demonstrate or at least reason to some certainty. Most deistic and theistic claims are pretty off the rocker, and so what I think is that until someone provides a compelling (an scientific) argument for such a deity (or deities), that claim hasn't met its burden of proof. That's why I'm an atheist.

    Ommadawn's last sentence is a bit misleading. Yes, it IS about proof. If we all decide to up and implement every idea or opinion we've had about something, without demonstrating it, we wouldn't have science, technology, mathematics, computational science (which led to what you're typing on), and so forth. We use this very same inductive logic every day, but when applied to what some think is the most important question, we shut our eyes and ears and shout "lalalalala" while saying what we think without being informed in the least. "I don't know" is a perfectly okay answer until we actually FIND the reason.
    Last edited by entry1wound; 04-01-2014 at 04:34 AM.

  4. #4
    Wucas Pls's Avatar Asuka Langley Soryu

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    There are just way to many coincidences for their not to be some sort of designer. Just take a look at how many times Φ (phi) is used in the natural world and tell me something different.

    The universe always resonates to chaos, but here we are, living semi-peaceful lives; that in itself is a miracle.

    *Moved to debate

  5. #5
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    That's a poor argument. We are here because the laws of the universe permit us to be. We happen to inhabit a planet that is suitable for life. Compare that to the billions if not trillions uninhabitable ones. If you have a deck of cards and there is a one in a trillion chance that it contains an Ace of spades, does that mean getting an Ace of spades is a miracle, or impossible? Or course not. No matter how low the probability, given enough time and chances, it will happen eventually.

    Your 'phi' argument is also invalid. Nature has examples of phi because, through natural selection, organisms that utilized the golden ratio in their anatomical structure had greater efficiency than those that did not. That's why we see them today. Yet, there are infinitely more examples where phi is not used in nature. You see, it's all a matter of perspective. If you want to think that all the vastness of the universe was created just for you, be my guest. I'd rather make decisions regarding my beliefs based on reality.

  6. #6
    Wucas Pls's Avatar Asuka Langley Soryu

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    Originally Posted by PizziTaxi View Post
    That's a poor argument. We are here because the laws of the universe permit us to be. We happen to inhabit a planet that is suitable for life. Compare that to the billions if not trillions uninhabitable ones. If you have a deck of cards and there is a one in a trillion chance that it contains an Ace of spades, does that mean getting an Ace of spades is a miracle, or impossible? Or course not. No matter how low the probability, given enough time and chances, it will happen eventually.

    Your 'phi' argument is also invalid. Nature has examples of phi because, through natural selection, organisms that utilized the golden ratio in their anatomical structure had greater efficiency than those that did not. That's why we see them today. Yet, there are infinitely more examples where phi is not used in nature. You see, it's all a matter of perspective. If you want to think that all the vastness of the universe was created just for you, be my guest. I'd rather make decisions regarding my beliefs based on reality.
    Okay, by your theory we will use statistics. If i flip a coin once, there is a 50 percent chance that it will be heads or tails no? And if i were to say, flip again, the chances of it being the same side are 50% of 50%, or 25%. There comes a point however, when statistics gives way to a concept called SZP, or statistical zero proof. At this time it literally becomes impossible by math to decertain the likelihood of an event; in most situations this number is attributed to 1/10^50 (0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001). Only in very certain circumstances is this integer allowed to be lowered to a smaller number.

    Now lets take the probability of life. Now seeing that there are alot of factors how about we divide the SZP by two, actually **** that, lets divide it by 4, does it still pass the test?

    KNOWN* Requirements for life
    Spoiler!


    And that comes up to be..... 1/10^322, this means that there is less than 1 chance in 1 million trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion exists that even one planet like earth could ever exist and support life. Not even close to the SZP, even divided by 4.

    In conclusion there are literally so many coincidences even math cannot place us in a statistic, yet we are still here.

    *I would like to note we have just scratched the surface of what is needed for life in the past 200 years, there are undoubtedly many more attributes we are not taking into consideration, so this 1/10^322 is probably an extremely high figure.
    Last edited by Wucas Pls; 04-01-2014 at 05:45 AM.

  7. #7
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    But, here we are anyways. What I stated before stands. Something being improbable does not make it impossible. All that tells me is that I'm lucky to be alive, and that the universe is a wondrous place filled with discoveries. You still have to prove that "a designer" made all this. Why not designers? Can I assume that you have a personal god? Why that god? Why not Odin? And, the universe is not finely tuned for us. There are trillions of black holes. It seems the primary goal of the universe is to make these black holes and consumer everything. How about Earth? We're so fragile and susceptible to natural disasters and disease. This doesn't seem like the work of a designer caring about life. If anything, this is the most inefficient and roundabout way to do it. Once again, it's a matter of perspective.

    Like I said before, if you want to think all of this was made for you by a conscious being so you can live on a little rock, go right ahead.

  8. #8
    Wucas Pls's Avatar Asuka Langley Soryu

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    Originally Posted by PizziTaxi View Post
    But, here we are anyways. What I stated before stands. Something being improbable does not make it impossible. All that tells me is that I'm lucky to be alive, and that the universe is a wondrous place filled with discoveries. You still have to prove that "a designer" made all this. Why not designers? Can I assume that you have a personal god? Why that god? Why not Odin? And, the universe is not finely tuned for us. There are trillions of black holes. It seems the primary goal of the universe is to make these black holes and consumer everything. How about Earth? We're so fragile and susceptible to natural disasters and disease. This doesn't seem like the work of a designer caring about life. If anything, this is the most inefficient and roundabout way to do it. Once again, it's a matter of perspective.

    Like I said before, if you want to think all of this was made for you by a conscious being so you can live on a little rock, go right ahead.
    My personal beliefs on a religious scale are not what is in question right now, its the question of whether a God (or Gods) exists, and for me (from a logical standpoint), it seems irrational to think "it just happened". I love science; I love math, it simply annoys me when people think that religion and logic cannot mix, because they most surely can.

    That was all I was trying to show by my long worded post prior to this.

  9. #9
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    Well I appreciate your civility. It's just that your statistical argument is a dangerous trap. Yes, it sounds quite compelling on paper. But, it is merely confirmation bias. Let's try that logic with something else. You came from one sperm out of billions. And that sperm fertilized one egg out of hundreds during a females lifetime. It doesn't end there. The female that created the egg also came from one sperm out of billions and one egg out of hundreds. And, so on and so on. In the end, what happens? You being alive is infinitely improbable. We can apply that kind of logic to just about anything. In the end, it is meaningless. This reality is the way it is.

    And, if you can't believe that "it just happened", then where did god or gods come from? Did they 'just happen'? So, it's not an answer. It is merely one out of countless hypotheticals.

  10. #10
    Amzz's Avatar 7 ~ 15

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    K this topic is going to start rage lol people are going to keep arguing about this stuff. So if it's going to become fighting and spam. Close it lol.
    OT: Yes I believe in a greater deity that is known as god.

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