Regarding the Snipers Nerf

[ZAIN]

Hi,

There was recently a sniper nerf on the scope delay, from 300ms to 2s. I think it was the wrong kind of nerf and here's why.


First of all, the nerf that happened only affected people using 2 snipers. People using a single sniper are unaffected, and therefore, it's not a nerf to the weapon as much as a limiter to a play-style.
Nope, it takes 2 seconds to scope out too, so you still need to wait 2 second after scoping in to switch weapons even if you only have 1 sniper.
People using two snipers are not as rare as they used to be before they were "tweaked", in fact, it can be fairly common to see a player with them in a room, but if we were to compare which weapon was mostly used, shotguns are (by a WIDE margin). The reason is simple, the spread makes it a forgiving weapon that still packs nearly -if not as much- damage than a sniper from up close, and is nearly guaranteed to hit at mid-range. It has a good ammo capacity and the delay is extremely small. In fact, this server probably has the strongest shotguns of any private server.
'Shotguns are OP so snipers need to be OP too' isn't a very good argument.
Snipers were brought up to be more competitive against them, rewarding quick aiming at the loss of certain moves. But it's clear, seeing how most players still used shotguns, that shotguns were still the "strongest"(relative) weapon, or at least, the one that gave you the advantage in most scenarios.

Because snipers could be used at great effect by someone who practiced aiming, some players got frustrated. Not because the weapon was overpowered (otherwise everybody would be using it), but because of how frustrating it is to get your HP from full to near-dead/dead (1/2 shot).
Problem is that snipers are used in close-combat too, where the need to aim is basically nil.

So, considering the aforementioned, I think snipers should have an increase in delay instead of an increase in scope delay. There is two reasons the nerf should be reverted and replaced by a delay-nerf.
Ever heard of reload shot? Yeah, it basically negates delay.
First, it will affect the weapon itself, not a playstyle. Players with only one sniper will also be affected.
Secondly, increasing the delay will reduce the "spammability" of snipers, while not preventing them from scoping in/out to re-aquire the target.
And last but not least, running with two snipers will become viable again, allowing to chain another shot quickly if the first one missed/to finnish of the target - All while not being spammable due to delay.

Thank you for reading,
Jawarisin

Sure, the balance right now is nowhere near perfect, and we'll keep adjusting over time to find a nice middle ground. I personally believe shotguns should be nerfed too in some way, but doing that is way harder than nerfing snipers. Snipers are recently new and aren't as written in stone as shotguns are in the GunZ scene, so it's much harder to find the right stats between all the other weapontypes that have been around since day 1.

[Jawarisin]

Sure, the balance right now is nowhere near perfect, and we'll keep adjusting over time to find a nice middle ground. I personally believe shotguns should be nerfed too in some way, but doing that is way harder than nerfing snipers. Snipers are recently new and aren't as written in stone as shotguns are in the GunZ scene, so it's much harder to find the right stats between all the other weapontypes that have been around since day 1.

Nope, it takes 2 seconds to scope out too, so you still need to wait 2 second after scoping in to switch weapons even if you only have 1 sniper.
-Didn't notice that particular bit, the other thing though is that with 1 sniper you can shoot just as fast as with 2 snipers. No advantage to having 2 of them now.
'Shotguns are OP so snipers need to be OP too' isn't a very good argument.
I'm not crying about shotguns being overpowered. They are stupidly strong it's true, but what I'm pointing out is that if we use them as the "baseline" Snipers are waaaaay below. Without being stronger or weaker, they should at least be competitive.
Problem is that snipers are used in close-combat too, where the need to aim is basically nil.
So are shotguns, who can be spammed, and used in more complex maneuvers, need even less aiming, and will kill you just as fast from up close.
Ever heard of reload shot? Yeah, it basically negates delay.
It doesn't negate the weapon delay... Only makes the weapon-switching animation way faster. The reason you might think it negates delay is because you're used to Fgunz's low delay shotguns who's delay are so low if you RS it doesn't even apply. If you RS with snipers like the old one, both delays would apply, not letting you shoot for the ~2000 delay or so. And fun bit I didn't mention up there, but Snipers were bugged and had a known issue that if you RS'd too fast, the first sniper's delay would add up on the second one's delay, and they would both have a huge delay, but only the first one would shoot. Point being, RS doesn't negate delay.

[Alpha]

Snipers4HP/AP Reduce

If snipers can kill us in 2 hits we should be able to kill snipers in 2 hits too ok

This is actually not a bad idea. A good balance.

[Jawarisin]

Snipers4HP/AP Reduce

If snipers can kill us in 2 hits we should be able to kill snipers in 2 hits too ok

it's already the case ok

[Traumatiser]

it's already the case ok

if someone can 2shot u with sg reguarly or even 3shot u with sg now or before update theirs 2 choices 4 u

1, learn proper movement.

2, quit gunz

[Mex]

Snipers4HP/AP Reduce

If snipers can kill us in 2 hits we should be able to kill snipers in 2 hits too ok

Well with snipers you cannot keep spamming it but have to wait and with Sgs you can spam and spam which is more of an advantage.

[Jonathan pls]

Well with snipers you cannot keep spamming it but have to wait and with Sgs you can spam and spam which is more of an advantage.

Yeah snipers are able to 2 hit kill u from one end of the map to the other end, which is totally not an advantage

[Colour]

Yeah snipers are able to 2 hit kill u from one end of the map to the other end, which is totally not an advantage

damn what maps are you even playing with your shotguns o.o, mine always got obstacles that block my view and are rather annoying...

[Ragon]

The only way I can see them fixing this and still "nerfing" snipers, would be to lower the delay to 1 second. 300ms to 2 seconds is a huge jump. Especially considering, that even the best snipers MISS. So if you miss, even at long range, 2 seconds of not being able to shoot gives other players (who in this scenario aren't sniping) time to move up while still spamming you and dealing damage. This is especially a devastating nerf if you are in a room where there is no R tag

[1mike1]

Best compromise that I can basically say will happen unless other complications come up (they might):

In [SNO] rooms and [SNO] rooms only, snipers will have 300~600ms delay.

In all other rooms the nerf will remain active, but but tweaked down to approximately 1.5~1.3~1. Depending on my testing and consultation with McSic or Dave as to what they assume is also fair.