Potential Upcoming Dagger/Dual Kodachi changes

[SecretsOTheP]

Hey folks,

We're in the process of trying to play around with unused weapons and need your feedback!

We have made the following changes and have uploaded two videos to demonstrate:

1) Dual Kodachi Block Animation increased in quickness by 80%
* This would mean that you could qbf with Kodachis. The downside is blocks with Kodachis are faster and the timing is harder.
2) Dual Kodachi damage will be reduced by 1/3rd.
3) Daggers can no longer flinch/'recoil' on block.
* This is commonly referred to as the 'recoil' animation. Your character cowers back in fear as if they've just seen a ghost.
* This does NOT effect the flinch from being slashed, only the block.
4) Dagger Reach will be increased slightly (190 -> 220) to maintain competitiveness with swords.

We're looking for your feedback to see if these would be welcomed changes. Please see the attached poll and select the options you would like to see.

Note we will be using the poll as a general guideline. If the community is divided on this issue, we'll make the choice that we feel is for the better of the game.

Videos below (pardon the snowy wind sounds, I was playing everquest in another window)

[Hulk]

yes I do believe that the daggers are useless against a sword in a gladiator match, meaning no one really uses it.
I guess buffing and adjusting it up would make it a bit more competitive (?)
side note;

please add this ijji Dagger idk why never got added.

[SecretsOTheP]

yes I do believe that the daggers are useless against a sword in a gladiator match, meaning no one really uses it.
I guess buffing and adjusting it up would make it a bit more competitive (?)
side note;
http://gunzstats.vacau.com/image/Cakram.png
please add this ijji Dagger idk why never got added.

Cakram should be in the files I'll double check. Odd that it's missing though I'll agree.

This is more of a non-gladiator buff to daggers; part of Dstyle in ijji was its evasiveness; take that away with anti-lead and you have a sword without block. Coupled with daggers needing to be lead more... if you try any of the ijji-era Dstyle techniques, they will not work as effectively. Most of the times they won't work at all, unless you can match shots one for one. Doing so is incredibly frustrating as a Dstyler as opposed to a Kstyler. The intention is to coax daggers into a more support position with their stabs 'flinching' other players as opposed to a tank with block (swords/dachis).

The buff to Dual Kodachis is moreso to keep them in line with swords - with the lessened block animation, you can do an extra slash and can qbf with them. (I'm sure our gladiators can penta-butterfly with them, but it'd be kind of hard). The intention is to put them in a more offensive position in terms of locking the opponent in gunplay, and to keep them slightly faster than Swords in Gladiator.

[xGhost]

Lower delay kodachi plz so i can finally tbf :K

[Moh]

Okay so,as this is kinda what i was asking in my other thread.
Since I've been using daggers since version 6 I've noticed that back then it was a little more useful but now with anti lead it's become so under used.
But i have to say,i think it's unfair for you to remove recoil and would make ghost evading and phantom evading pretty much gone.
The dagger delay is so good now,it's just like ijji and it actually doesn't feel spam-able.
So really the only thing i would agree with is the dagger range increased. It's fair to get recoiled after stabbing someone straight on.
If you don't know,when you look down and try to stab someone straight on it doesn't recoil or do the animation.
Dagger machine (looking down and stabbing and circling the opponent) would be abusive as hell..
I say keep the recoil,increase the range.
Daggers aren't useless,it's just people's lack of knowledge about them that make them look inferior.

[SecretsOTheP]

Dagger machine (looking down and stabbing and circling the opponent) would be abusive as hell..

As a dstyler - can you honestly say that it's fun and fair gameplay to recoil with a dagger after a block? There is no current way to cause a sword user to recoil as a dstyler - this is very one sided and a *clear balance issue* imo.

Recoil animation for swords makes a bit more sense as both of you can block.

And there is currently a bug where the recoil animation will not play in MAIETs code if your target is viewing at a certain angle, not relative to the dagger user, which is commonly referred to as dmachine. I don't like the idea of having to predict an opponent - who already can block to avoid ranged damage entirely if you're in dmachine range - to avoid a recoil animation which may be affected by frame lag.

As for the range idea I think putting them on 220 range - equal to Kodachis/Swords - is 'more than fair' for daggers. I would much rather see recoil removed than a range increase. And the poll will likely implement one, not both. I'm trusting the community with this one.

[Moh]

As a dstyler - can you honestly say that it's fun and fair gameplay to recoil with a dagger after a block? There is no current way to cause a sword user to recoil as a dstyler - this is very one sided and a *clear balance issue* imo.

Recoil animation for swords makes a bit more sense as both of you can block.

And there is currently a bug where the recoil animation will not play in MAIETs code if your target is viewing at a certain angle, not relative to the dagger user, which is commonly referred to as dmachine. I don't like the idea of having to predict an opponent - who already can block to avoid ranged damage entirely if you're in dmachine range - to avoid a recoil animation which may be affected by frame lag.

As for the range idea I think putting them on 220 range - equal to Kodachis/Swords - is 'more than fair' for daggers. I would much rather see recoil removed than a range increase. And the poll will likely implement one, not both. I'm trusting the community with this one.

As a d styler i would say it's not always fair but you could also get the sword user to massive,that would lead up to 4-5 more stabs behind them which seems fair to me.
Also there was a bug on aeria that when someone was stabbed as soon as they massived they would be in massive lock animation,that always felt good but i know it's probably not replicable on Fgunz.

[4You]

As a dstyler - can you honestly say that it's fun and fair gameplay to recoil with a dagger after a block? There is no current way to cause a sword user to recoil as a dstyler - this is very one sided and a *clear balance issue* imo.

Recoil animation for swords makes a bit more sense as both of you can block.

And there is currently a bug where the recoil animation will not play in MAIETs code if your target is viewing at a certain angle, not relative to the dagger user, which is commonly referred to as dmachine. I don't like the idea of having to predict an opponent - who already can block to avoid ranged damage entirely if you're in dmachine range - to avoid a recoil animation which may be affected by frame lag.

As for the range idea I think putting them on 220 range - equal to Kodachis/Swords - is 'more than fair' for daggers. I would much rather see recoil removed than a range increase. And the poll will likely implement one, not both. I'm trusting the community with this one.

As a dstyler, i think it'll be easier to dmachine, and i dont want it, it would be so easy dmachine-pb people because youll not looking down to prevent recoils, and dmachining without shaking your camera and paying attention in every angle that you cn possibly get recoiled isnt fun

[Jetman]

Okay so,as this is kinda what i was asking in my other thread.
Since I've been using daggers since version 6 I've noticed that back then it was a little more useful but now with anti lead it's become so under used.
But i have to say,i think it's unfair for you to remove recoil and would make ghost evading and phantom evading pretty much gone.
The dagger delay is so good now,it's just like ijji and it actually doesn't feel spam-able.
So really the only thing i would agree with is the dagger range increased. It's fair to get recoiled after stabbing someone straight on.
If you don't know,when you look down and try to stab someone straight on it doesn't recoil or do the animation.
Dagger machine (looking down and stabbing and circling the opponent) would be abusive as hell..
I say keep the recoil,increase the range.
Daggers aren't useless,it's just people's lack of knowledge about them that make them look inferior.

An elite dstyler due to antilead, swords range, etc. can't beat a true elite k styler, I've never seen it happen. Also, looking down still causes a recoil, otherwise kstylers that utilize angles would always look down.

[Moh]

An elite dstyler due to antilead, swords range, etc. can't beat a true elite k styler, I've never seen it happen. Also, looking down still causes a recoil, otherwise kstylers that utilize angles would always look down.

I've beaten elite k stylers without needing this buff. You can't tell me i need a baby buff to even the playing field. I know what needs to change and it's not removing recoil. Keep the recoil how it was originally.


Edit:Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it has never happened. I personally like how hard it is to beat someone that good,without a single slash shot.