Damage System Has To Be Fixed!

[Hart]

i've had many instances like this as well, where i felt like i should've done so much more. But difference is i have pellets turned on and i rewatch the replays. and while its crazy to know you can miss at that range, its rng of the pellets afterall. the very slightest movement right before you shoot greatly affects your outcome - and you'll only get to see this affect with pellets on

case 1,2,6 - your low dmg shots seemed to be flicks that involve the very slightest movements right before you shoot
case 3 - shots here did what they were supposed to because these were stable shots and not movement-related shots like case 2
case 4 is the only sus clip imo, but you'll never know if you don't have pellets turned on.
case 5 - your second shoot mightve hit for more, but was only able to register 30 because of opponents hp, so you never actually get to find out how much the second shoot did

[ijramist]

i've had many instances like this as well, where i felt like i should've done so much more. But difference is i have pellets turned on and i rewatch the replays. and while its crazy to know you can miss at that range, its rng of the pellets afterall. the very slightest movement right before you shoot greatly affects your outcome - and you'll only get to see this affect with pellets on

case 1,2,6 - your low dmg shots seemed to be flicks that involve the very slightest movements right before you shoot
case 3 - shots here did what they were supposed to because these were stable shots and not movement-related shots like case 2
case 4 is the only sus clip imo, but you'll never know if you don't have pellets turned on.
case 5 - your second shoot mightve hit for more, but was only able to register 30 because of opponents hp, so you never actually get to find out how much the second shoot did

Flicking and moving faster DOESN'T affect the damage. I can get examples of players who actually flick and move pretty fast and yet they still can deal a lot of damage.
However, since we got a damage issue in this server - the people I'm talking about would still not hit hard despite their flicks and moves. Everytime I hop on to play, I keep changing the style I play, sometimes I track, move slow and walk, sometimes I move fast and flick a lot. Yet, same various weird damage registering happen whatever your style is during playing. As long as a player can actually moves fast and flick and aim pretty well at the same time, then he still can deal good damage, but the issue we are facing doesn't help. If I didn't convince you, we can go in-game and have some battles by implementing different gameplays (slow and fast) + (flicking and tracking), then I'll prove my point that I can actually hit hard and cannot hit hard in any style of gameplay I stick to.

Therefore, cases 1,2 and 6 have nothing to do with flicks. In my unedited video - without slow-motions, I was actually tracking.
I mentioned case 3 in order to have a comparison of how damage registered in close-range and middle-range. Clearly, you can see middle-range shots dealt almost as same as a close-range shots which makes no sense. In case 4, even if I had my bullets shown, that still doesn't explain why I dealt 45 damage PB. The shotgun I used in that shot was a 9 damage - which means it throws 10-12 bullets at a time, each bullet does 9 damage. Let's be more light and take the minimum bullets a shotgun threw - 10 bullets.
So, since the shot made 45 damage that means only 5 bullets touched the enemy in our close-range (45/9=5). However, my crosshair was well-centered when I shot, and only HALF of the bullets touched my enemy in a close-range - no logic exists. Now, if we consider that the shotgun threw 11 or 12 bullets then that will make our case even worse. Regarding case 5, it's the only thing I agree with you. It's true he died, and damage only calculates what has left of hp/ap of the enemy, didn't take that into consideration, thank you for clearing this out.

[Hart]

Flicking and moving faster DOESN'T affect the damage. I can get examples of players who actually flick and move pretty fast and yet they still can deal a lot of damage.
However, since we got a damage issue in this server - the people I'm talking about would still not hit hard despite their flicks and moves. Everytime I hop on to play, I keep changing the style I play, sometimes I track, move slow and walk, sometimes I move fast and flick a lot. Yet, same various weird damage registering happen whatever your style is during playing. As long as a player can actually moves fast and flick and aim pretty well at the same time, then he still can deal good damage, but the issue we are facing doesn't help. If I didn't convince you, we can go in-game and have some battles by implementing different gameplays (slow and fast) + (flicking and tracking), then I'll prove my point that I can actually hit hard and cannot hit hard in any style of gameplay I stick to.

Therefore, cases 1,2 and 6 have nothing to do with flicks. In my unedited video - without slow-motions, I was actually tracking.
I mentioned case 3 in order to have a comparison of how damage registered in close-range and middle-range. Clearly, you can see middle-range shots dealt almost as same as a close-range shots which makes no sense. In case 4, even if I had my bullets shown, that still doesn't explain why I dealt 45 damage PB. The shotgun I used in that shot was a 9 damage - which means it throws 10-12 bullets at a time, each bullet does 9 damage. Let's be more light and take the minimum bullets a shotgun threw - 10 bullets.
So, since the shot made 45 damage that means only 5 bullets touched the enemy in our close-range (45/9=5). However, my crosshair was well-centered when I shot, and only HALF of the bullets touched my enemy in a close-range - no logic exists. Now, if we consider that the shotgun threw 11 or 12 bullets then that will make our case even worse. Regarding case 5, it's the only thing I agree with you. It's true he died, and damage only calculates what has left of hp/ap of the enemy, didn't take that into consideration, thank you for clearing this out.

Flicking and moving your cursor rapidly right before you shoot has everything to do with how much you deal simply because of mouse sensitivity.
Here’s an extremely simple and easy to understand concept. You experiment with 2 shots from the exact same distance
First shoot - you place your cursor right in the middle on someone who isn’t moving and shoot. You’ll deal a consistent and high amount.
Second shoot - you take the same distance and the same person that isn’t moving, but this time you move your cursor right to left and shoot.
Do you think you will deal as consistent and as much damage on the second shot compared to the first? If your answer is no then my case for 1,2,6 stands.

The milliseconds of movements right before a shot goes off plays an extremely big part in your dmg. Without pellets, this is impossible to see. But if you try and play with pellets on and go back to watch the replays, you’ll see how cursor placement during fast movement greatly affects aim.

On the topic of how some players can move extremely quick but still deal consistent dmg. Some players are just better than us at the game. Comparing yourself to another player isn’t comparing apples to apples.

Btw I get where you’re coming from. But unless pellets are turned, you have nothing on your case.

[ijramist]

Flicking and moving your cursor rapidly right before you shoot has everything to do with how much you deal simply because of mouse sensitivity.
Here’s an extremely simple and easy to understand concept. You experiment with 2 shots from the exact same distance
First shoot - you place your cursor right in the middle on someone who isn’t moving and shoot. You’ll deal a consistent and high amount.
Second shoot - you take the same distance and the same person that isn’t moving, but this time you move your cursor right to left and shoot.
Do you think you will deal as consistent and as much damage on the second shot compared to the first? If your answer is no then my case for 1,2,6 stands.

No, because the probability of hitting more bullets will be less. However, that doesn't mean we can accept a TWOFOLD damage difference (more than half bullets were missed). Let's create a situation for now, the worst case we can do is to aim on arms or any of the limbs. In that case, I can agree wtih you. But in the video my crosshair is not even any close to have such situation. My crosshair is either well-centered or almost centered - which is meant to deal a lot of damage. Again, we are talking about a TWOFOLD damage difference between a solid-centered shot and an almost centered shot, in the worst cases I believe the maximum damage difference should be 1.5 times in my cases.

The milliseconds of movements right before a shot goes off plays an extremely big part in your dmg. Without pellets, this is impossible to see. But if you try and play with pellets on and go back to watch the replays, you’ll see how cursor placement during fast movement greatly affects aim.

You can't take someone who can't aim while moving as an example. Our discussed issue is prominent - aimming and damaging. Regarding aimming, we gotta take both two possible situations: 1) aim + fast movements and flicks. 2) aim + slow movements and less flicks. These are the only two situations that can help us to conclude various points. Why are you taking an X that has movements and doesn't has an aim ? As long as the guy can barely aim while moving then that's his personal issue, not a game's mechanism issue.

On the topic of how some players can move extremely quick but still deal consistent dmg. Some players are just better than us at the game. Comparing yourself to another player isn’t comparing apples to apples.

You are now talking about a miscellaneous gaming levels. In order to debate about a game's system relating damage issue, then we have to take the maximum number of scenarios that are aim-related. We can't take someone who can't aim while moving as an example to interfere in our discussion. As I mentioned before, that will turn into a personal issue to that player himself and lack of training.

Btw I get where you’re coming from. But unless pellets are turned, you have nothing on your case.

I've no idea what you are talking about, came from where ?

[Hart]

No, because the probability of hitting more bullets will be less. However, that doesn't mean we can accept a TWOFOLD damage difference (more than half bullets were missed). Let's create a situation for now, the worst case we can do is to aim on arms or any of the limbs. In that case, I can agree wtih you. But in the video my crosshair is not even any close to have such situation. My crosshair is either well-centered or almost centered - which is meant to deal a lot of damage. Again, we are talking about a TWOFOLD damage difference between a solid-centered shot and an almost centered shot, in the worst cases I believe the maximum damage difference should be 1.5 times in my cases.



You can't take someone who can't aim while moving as an example. Our discussed issue is prominent - aimming and damaging. Regarding aimming, we gotta take both two possible situations: 1) aim + fast movements and flicks. 2) aim + slow movements and less flicks. These are the only two situations that can help us to conclude various points. Why are you taking an X that has movements and doesn't has an aim ? As long as the guy can barely aim while moving then that's his personal issue, not a game's mechanism issue.



You are now talking about a miscellaneous gaming levels. In order to debate about a game's system relating damage issue, then we have to take the maximum number of scenarios that are aim-related. We can't take someone who can't aim while moving as an example to interfere in our discussion. As I mentioned before, that will turn into a personal issue to that player himself and lack of training.


I've no idea what you are talking about, came from where ?

every single one of your rebuttals is backed up by the assumption that you're a 10/10 aimer, which cannot be concluded without pellets turned on. Its the same concept as when people complain about hitting PB's that do low dmg. Last time i checked FG doesnt have a PB recognition counter. You only truly know through pellets.

you deduce that every single one of your shots that did low dmg are dead center. But watching it in slow-mo says otherwise, + you're also not taking into consideration the most important aspect of spread - rng.


Said this in all my replies and am gonna say it again, only pellets will tell, without them, you donthave a case to build on.

[ijramist]

every single one of your rebuttals is backed up by the assumption that you're a 10/10 aimer, which cannot be concluded without pellets turned on. Its the same concept as when people complain about hitting PB's that do low dmg. Last time i checked FG doesnt have a PB recognition counter. You only truly know through pellets.

you deduce that every single one of your shots that did low dmg are dead center. But watching it in slow-mo says otherwise, + you're also not taking into consideration the most important aspect of spread - rng.


Said this in all my replies and am gonna say it again, only pellets will tell, without them, you donthave a case to build on.

I’m aware that it is an RNG based game. It’s been like that since GunZ 1.5 if I’m not wrong. I’m not claiming that I’m a 10/10 aimer, I’m just considering the correct requirements we have to put in order to clarify our issue in general. Anyways, if I had enough time in the future to record more clips with pellets on I’ll provide it.
If you are able to do that, it would be highly appreciated then.

[Rain]

Honestly, I hit pretty hard doesn't matter what server i play on.
FGunZ had it's moments where my hits wouldn't do anything but it didn't happen that many times and it was usually my own fault.